My weird problems
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29-05-2014, 03:04 AM
My weird problems
Conservative, aggressive arguments seem more rational to me for some reason, even though I know they're not (Jeremy E Walker is a good example of this). This effectively makes me obnoxiously depressed. An interesting side effect of this is how I percieve christianity. Stuff like the "evolutionary argument against rationalism" feel rational, while the whole Jesus story makes absolutely no sense to me.

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29-05-2014, 03:15 AM
RE: My weird problems
(29-05-2014 03:04 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Conservative, aggressive arguments seem more rational to me for some reason, even though I know they're not (Jeremy E Walker is a good example of this). This effectively makes me obnoxiously depressed. An interesting side effect of this is how I percieve christianity. Stuff like the "evolutionary argument against rationalism" feel rational, while the whole Jesus story makes absolutely no sense to me.

Have you ever been to a psychologist? You sound as if you are suffering from some form of depression.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-05-2014, 03:18 AM
RE: My weird problems
(29-05-2014 03:15 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Have you ever been to a psychologist?
Yes. They never seem to understand me. (Which isn't saying much. Even I don't understand myself)
(29-05-2014 03:15 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You sound as if you are suffering from some form of depression.
You don't say?

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29-05-2014, 03:24 AM
RE: My weird problems
(29-05-2014 03:04 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Conservative, aggressive arguments seem more rational to me for some reason, even though I know they're not (Jeremy E Walker is a good example of this). This effectively makes me obnoxiously depressed. An interesting side effect of this is how I percieve christianity. Stuff like the "evolutionary argument against rationalism" feel rational, while the whole Jesus story makes absolutely no sense to me.

If a conservative, aggressive argument seems more rational to you, you are not alone. You don't have to deny it; go with it and see what you get. You may not feel so depressed about it.

You do seem better today, diddo Thumbsup.

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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29-05-2014, 03:34 AM
RE: My weird problems
(29-05-2014 03:24 AM)Dee Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 03:04 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Conservative, aggressive arguments seem more rational to me for some reason, even though I know they're not (Jeremy E Walker is a good example of this). This effectively makes me obnoxiously depressed. An interesting side effect of this is how I percieve christianity. Stuff like the "evolutionary argument against rationalism" feel rational, while the whole Jesus story makes absolutely no sense to me.

If a conservative, aggressive argument seems more rational to you, you are not alone. You don't have to deny it; go with it and see what you get. You may not feel so depressed about it.

You do seem better today, diddo Thumbsup.

I can't. My mind simultaneously accepts it and rejects it.

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29-05-2014, 03:41 AM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2014 03:47 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: My weird problems
(29-05-2014 03:04 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Conservative, aggressive arguments seem more rational to me for some reason, even though I know they're not (Jeremy E Walker is a good example of this).

Essentially they feel more rational to you, but can you explain why they are?

If this is the case it suggests that the argument is tapping into pre-existing conditioning if you have been hearing these kind of arguments since you were very young.

If you try to convince someone of an argument they have never heard before, regardless of whether it is correct or not, they will initially be sceptical. Religion relies upon increasing this level of initial scepticism to any new argument. It achieves this by conditioning people from the moment they learn to talk and before they develop their own skills in critical thinking.

The solution is to question everything and to never stop questioning. The right answer to the wrong question is a wrong answer. If you continually question everything then you will then find that some arguments collapse more quickly than others and no longer feel rational.
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29-05-2014, 03:45 AM
RE: My weird problems
(29-05-2014 03:34 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 03:24 AM)Dee Wrote:  If a conservative, aggressive argument seems more rational to you, you are not alone. You don't have to deny it; go with it and see what you get. You may not feel so depressed about it.

You do seem better today, diddo Thumbsup.

I can't. My mind simultaneously accepts it and rejects it.

Maybe try and get comfortable with, 'I don't know', as an answer for now? Smile

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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29-05-2014, 03:51 AM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2014 09:59 AM by John.)
RE: My weird problems
(29-05-2014 03:04 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Conservative, aggressive arguments seem more rational to me for some reason, even though I know they're not (Jeremy E Walker is a good example of this). This effectively makes me obnoxiously depressed. An interesting side effect of this is how I percieve christianity. Stuff like the "evolutionary argument against rationalism" feel rational, while the whole Jesus story makes absolutely no sense to me.

I'm not sure what arguments you're referring to when you say 'conservative, aggressive arguments', but if they're the ones that Jeremy has been championing (Kalaam, Morality from God), then I'm hard pressed to see how you could at the same time find them more rational and know them to be false. Maybe you meant more intuitive? For that is the only way, I find, how someone could accept them: due to lack of scrutiny. Once you scrutinize the definitions, the arguments fall helplessly apart, either as non-sensical or as cases of special pleading.

I looked up the "evolutionary argument against rationalism" and on the face of it, I have few objections, it's just a small case for: empiricism > rationalism. Are you aware that rationalism in such a context refers to the philosophical movement, which is quite different from what 'rational' in common usage means? In a nutshell, rationalism tries to ground knowledge in intuitions followed by reasoning. Empiricism, in a nutshell, tries to ground knowledge in sensory information followed by reasoning. Both of them apply reason and logic, hence they can both be considered 'rational' in the common sense.

If this is what you're talking about, when you say that you find something more rational, then I guess the way to go about is to come to terms with the fact that human intuitions often are wrong. Sad but true. Accepting facts is not always a painless thing to do if you have to give up beliefs you previously held to be facts. Building your own world view is a tediously slow process, but it's well worth doing, you'll have much more firm ground to stand on in the future.

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