My wife delusion...
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18-06-2015, 08:39 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2015 09:04 AM by Tonechaser77.)
My wife delusion...
I just had a not so pleasant conversation yesterday with my wife....again Sad

We were watching Grey's Anatomy (the back logs on Netflix) and there was an older couple in their 70s or so that were sneaking into a room in the hospital to get it on. I playfully gestured that would be us when we were 70. But my wife, quite ominously, looked away and murmured, "if we're even together".

I won't lie, damn, that cut to the bone. I told her about it later. This led to the god conversation again and I kept insisting that it wasn't a phase. Once you gain information and knowledge and start to assemble the pieces of the puzzle it's not something you can continue to stick your head in the sand about. She used her same old lines about how I need faith.

I, again, carefully tried to explain the problems with faith:
1) It's wishful thinking, and something you need ONLY when you have don't have significant evidence.
2) We don't operate any other area of our life by blind faith, if we did we would be considered irrational, i gave examples, walking out in front of cars on a highway and having faith god wouldn't let them hit me, not wearing a seat belt, not studying for a test (god will provide the answers).
3) If we appeal to faith then you have to include every other religion that does as well so which one is right?

She just can't grasp the error in thinking. It breaks down too far back and the connection can't be made. She then asks me about our kids and if I'm okay with them not being a christian and letting them go to hell. I told her what I've told her before, I'll compromise and let her indoctrinate but I want them to make that choice based on their own study and I will still love them no matter what. She couldn't comprehend that. To her I just said, yep, send them to hell. And then she concluded by saying "see this is what is going to tear us apart." I told her we needed to focus on values not beliefs because it's a larger common ground. She couldn't get that. If they don't believe, they are going to hell. To her that's the bottom line.

Her other go to is argument is from personal experience. We met on myspace, (ha!) It's been 10 years. We were both Christians and when I came across her profile that's what stood out. We befriended each other and yada yada yada. Here's where the personal experience gets real personal for her. In the midst of her previous marriage, which was devastatingly horrible, she finally got enough courage to leave. While she was 'healing' she wrote a letter to god explaining the kind of husband she wanted. I came along, I was it. Now, I have tried to carefully explain probability, chance. I've used the dice example, I've used the lotto example. Very low probability but there's still a winner. I have asked her if she is absolutely positive that god was the only explanation for her prayer about a husband. And if so, why did he answer her prayer but not the mother in Cleveland Clinic with a two year old that just died from a brain tumor.

She can't make the goddamn connection and it is so frustrating. Fuck!!!!

*sigh* This truly may be the beginning of the end. I need to keep fighting but start accepting that potential and place it on the back burner so I'm not devastated if it happens.

As always, thanks for letting me rant. I need to start blogging this shit to get it out of my mind and system.

**Crickets** -- God
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18-06-2015, 09:03 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
I have always said.
"Buy a car and a house, give her the keys and save yourself 15 years. And don't marry her!"

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-06-2015, 09:07 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
I'm sorry youre stuck in such a crappy place.

I wish I had advice for you, but I don't believe people with two such differing life views can make it work. I suspect the only way you'll make her happy is by faking god love. I dont know if you'll be comfortable doing that or not.

I do hope you guys find a way though. I really do.
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18-06-2015, 09:10 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
Divorce her. Life is too short. There is plenty of great atheist women out there. Just read some of the responses here. Fine women all.

Don't waste your life. Sure it'll cost money. At least until she remarries.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-06-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
(18-06-2015 08:39 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  I just had a not so pleasant conversation yesterday with my wife....again Sad

We were watching Grey's Anatomy (the back logs on Netflix) and there was an older couple in their 70s or so that were sneaking into a room in the hospital to get it on. I playfully gestured that would be us when we were 70. But my wife, quite ominously, looked away and murmured, "if we're even together".

I won't lie, damn, that cut to the bone. I told her about it later. This led to the god conversation again and I kept insisting that it wasn't a phase. Once you gain information and knowledge and start to assemble the pieces of the puzzle it's not something you can continue to stick your head in the sand about. She used her same old lines about how I need faith.

I, again, carefully tried to explain the problems with faith:
1) It's wishful thinking, and something you need ONLY when you have don't have significant evidence.
2) We don't operate any other area of our life by blind faith, if we did we would be considered irrational, i gave examples, walking out in front of cars on a highway and having faith god wouldn't let them hit me, not wearing a seat belt, not studying for a test (god will provide the answers).
3) If we appeal to faith then you have to include every other religion because they do too so which one is right?

She just can't grasp the error in thinking. It breaks down too far back and the connection can't be made. She then asks me about our kids and if I'm okay with them not being a christian and letting them go to hell. I told her what I've told her before, I'll compromise and let her indoctrinate but I want them to make that choice based on their own study and I will still love them no matter what. She couldn't comprehend that. To her I just said, yep, send them to hell. And then she concluded by saying "see this is what is going to tear us apart." I told her we needed to focus on values not beliefs because it's a larger common ground. She couldn't get that. If they don't believe, they are going to hell. To her that's the bottom line.

Her other go to is argument is from personal experience. We met on myspace, (ha!) It's been 10 years. We were both Christians and when I came across her profile that's what stood out. We befriended each other and yada yada yada. Here's where the personal experience gets real personal for her. In the midst of her previous marriage, which was devastatingly horrible, she finally got enough courage to leave. While she was 'healing' she wrote a letter to god explaining the kind of husband she wanted. I came along, I was it. Now, I have tried to carefully explain probability, chance. I've used the dice example, I've used the lotto example. Very low probability but there's still a winner. I have asked her if she is absolutely positive that god was the only explanation for her prayer about a husband. And if so, why did he answer her prayer but not the mother in Cleveland Clinic with a two year old that just died from a brain tumor.

She can't make the goddamn connection and it is so frustrating. Fuck!!!!

*sigh* This truly may be the beginning of the end. I need to keep fighting but start accepting that potential and place it on the back burner so I'm not devastated if it happens.

As always, thanks for letting me rant. I need to start blogging this shit to get it out of my mind and system.

When you are a believer--everything seems to have God's hand in it. Due to all of the brainwashing, it is very hard to stop thinking in that way. I remember getting into arguments with my bf (a non-believer) about random things that I thought God was involved in. I remember one time it was very cold out and my bf had an extra coat and so I threw it in the back of the car in case a homeless person might need one. Well, right after putting the coat in the car, we drove maybe a few miles and what did we see--a homeless man holding up a sign asking for a coat. So of course, I was like God is so wonderful yadda yadda. My bf said "You don't think this could just happen by chance considering it's cold out, there are homeless people in the city, and you often help the homeless by bringing items you think they might need in your car?" I just scoffed at him and said "Yeah, but I never brought a coat or found someone holding up a sign saying they needed one specifically." His response: "So God coordinated things so you would give him a coat, but wouldn't help him to not be homeless?" My response: "Well, God works in His own ways--maybe He was getting ready to help him and my giving him the coat was the first step to his getting off the streets?" His response: "But God could have stopped him from being homeless in the first place." Me: "Well, God sometimes tries to teach us lessons through hardships in our lives--so we can become stronger people, help others, and grow closer to Him." And that is the brainwashing rationalization in a nut shell. Nothing can happen without God. You can try and logically rationalize things to your wife--but if she is so far brainwashed it is very hard for her to think in logically rational terms. God makes sense, He is all-powerful--there is no need to think/question any further. That was my mindset for years and it was what I was taught in church, so I can certainly understand your wife's way of thinking. I am sure it is easy to get frustrated with her for thinking this way--but her beliefs have been set and it is really hard to unravel from all of that.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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18-06-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
If many of your conversations (rather than a couple here or there) lead you and your wife to this point, that's going to strain your marriage. It doesn't seem as if either of you is willing to agree to disagree, and there's the possibility that your arguments are actually strengthening her convictions instead of undermining them.
My suggestion would be a time-out period where both of you avoid this discussion for, say, a couple of months. See whether the rest of the relationship compensates outweighs this area of contention. I've found it hard, but essential, in my own marriage (20 years so far) sometimes to step back from a battle that I feel I could win, but at too high of a cost to the relationship.
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18-06-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
So it seems to me that to her your non-belief is a phase that will pass. Have you asked her what she intend to do if it's not just a phase? And how long does it take for it to not be a phase?
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18-06-2015, 10:01 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
(18-06-2015 09:28 AM)jennybee Wrote:  When you are a believer--everything seems to have God's hand in it. Due to all of the brainwashing, it is very hard to stop thinking in that way. I remember getting into arguments with my bf (a non-believer) about random things that I thought God was involved in. I remember one time it was very cold out and my bf had an extra coat and so I threw it in the back of the car in case a homeless person might need one. Well, right after putting the coat in the car, we drove maybe a few miles and what did we see--a homeless man holding up a sign asking for a coat. So of course, I was like God is so wonderful yadda yadda. My bf said "You don't think this could just happen by chance considering it's cold out, there are homeless people in the city, and you often help the homeless by bringing items you think they might need in your car?" I just scoffed at him and said "Yeah, but I never brought a coat or found someone holding up a sign saying they needed one specifically." His response: "So God coordinated things so you would give him a coat, but wouldn't help him to not be homeless?" My response: "Well, God works in His own ways--maybe He was getting ready to help him and my giving him the coat was the first step to his getting off the streets?" His response: "But God could have stopped him from being homeless in the first place." Me: "Well, God sometimes tries to teach us lessons through hardships in our lives--so we can become stronger people, help others, and grow closer to Him." And that is the brainwashing rationalization in a nut shell. Nothing can happen without God. You can try and logically rationalize things to your wife--but if she is so far brainwashed it is very hard for her to think in logically rational terms. God makes sense, He is all-powerful--there is no need to think/question any further. That was my mindset for years and it was what I was taught in church, so I can certainly understand your wife's way of thinking. I am sure it is easy to get frustrated with her for thinking this way--but her beliefs have been set and it is really hard to unravel from all of that.

I certainly understand this myself. I was there too and it wasn't until I noticed the small hiccups in theology etc, that turned into giant gaping holes from searching on my own that I was able to see. If God is the answer that's all you need. You stop there. I get it....just frustrating for me and i'm sure it's frustrating for her.

(18-06-2015 09:39 AM)julep Wrote:  If many of your conversations (rather than a couple here or there) lead you and your wife to this point, that's going to strain your marriage. It doesn't seem as if either of you is willing to agree to disagree, and there's the possibility that your arguments are actually strengthening her convictions instead of undermining them.
My suggestion would be a time-out period where both of you avoid this discussion for, say, a couple of months. See whether the rest of the relationship compensates outweighs this area of contention. I've found it hard, but essential, in my own marriage (20 years so far) sometimes to step back from a battle that I feel I could win, but at too high of a cost to the relationship.

We do normally go quite some time without entering into these discussions which are short, tempered flares. They are over as quickly as they start and then all seems well. However, I can't tell if it's leading to an eruption on her end. She dismisses the argument extremely quickly almost as if they didn't happen. This kind of worries me though as I don't want her to bottle her emotions up.

(18-06-2015 09:41 AM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  So it seems to me that to her your non-belief is a phase that will pass. Have you asked her what she intend to do if it's not just a phase? And how long does it take for it to not be a phase?

I have told her several times that this is not a phase. I've explained it to her but I think it's just her wishful thinking for me to come back to the fold. I've always predicated my stances on the fact that I am willing to change my mind, I just need to have logical ample evidence. I haven't gotten the question "what would it take to change your mind" yet but I suppose if i did my response would be, "well if god exists and he is all knowing then he knows what it will take for me to change my mind so i'm not worried about it."

**Crickets** -- God
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18-06-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
So sorry man. Your story sends chills down my back. Hug

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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18-06-2015, 10:54 AM
RE: My wife delusion...
You all need to agree to disagree. Any further conversations will just drive her into a corner - and she will be defensive which kills anything you may have accomplished.

You planted the seed. She may open her eyes eventually, or she may not. I would avoid any further conversation like the plague. I have a feeling that, if you push, she'll snap.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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