N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
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01-12-2017, 09:46 AM
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
(01-12-2017 09:39 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 09:33 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Native Americans might disagree with the above statement.

Also, England and Ireland were invaded and occupied many times, and they are nothing like North Korea. They just assimilated the invaders and carried on (although I won't pretend that the assimilation was painless). Of course, they have had 1000 years or more to deal with it. Maybe we just need to give the Koreans some time.

And Native Americans would understand.
Ireland and England have a bloody past related to being invaded . They hardly just assimilated the invaders. Yes it was painful so what is your point? That's not assimilation. It's fatigue at best.
Assimilated in the Borg sense I suppose.

My point is that if being invaded repeatedly is the reason for North Korea being the way it is, England and Ireland should also be that way -- and they're not.
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01-12-2017, 09:54 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 10:03 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
(01-12-2017 09:46 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 09:39 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  And Native Americans would understand.
Ireland and England have a bloody past related to being invaded . They hardly just assimilated the invaders. Yes it was painful so what is your point? That's not assimilation. It's fatigue at best.
Assimilated in the Borg sense I suppose.

My point is that if being invaded repeatedly is the reason for North Korea being the way it is, England and Ireland should also be that way -- and they're not.

Except that the invaders never left.
Britain became England after being invaded by the "Engels"
Later Angle's and the Saxon's.
They were conquered.
And making the assertion that the British were not war like in the centuries after.. well I don't think that can be said.
Northern Ireland would be more to the point. Before gaining independence.
And if the British maintained military forces poised on the border ever since it would change the way Northern Ireland acts.

You can go down this road and look at this one and that one.
I stand by the contention that North Korea being the way it is owes a lot to a history of being invaded, and invaded by forces that are now poised on it's borders.
And I do think it points to the folly of military invasion.
Classic blow back every time.

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01-12-2017, 10:04 AM
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
(30-11-2017 04:02 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  This is an interesting image, taken in 2014 from the ISS. North Korea, the only nation to develop atomic weapons before the electric light...

Ouch... Australia doesn't fare much better.

[Image: 1024px-Australia_night.jpg]
—NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center Scientific Visualization Studio
Not many light globes, and NO nuclear weapons. Consider

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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01-12-2017, 12:42 PM
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
I would bet USA has many missiles capable of reaching N Korea.

Also there are many countries with missiles capable of reaching DC also. Russia, France, UK, China to mention a few.

So F'n what.

USA ought to quit with this bullying and whinging.
If you get rid of your own missiles and nukes and then start complaining about others having them, well then I'll listen. But at the moment, all your complaining is beyond ridiculous.
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01-12-2017, 12:44 PM
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
At work.

Consider

And here I was thinking 'What a neat way for Kim to save on postage when he wants to send his mate Donald a letter.'

Tongue
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01-12-2017, 12:46 PM
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
At work.

(01-12-2017 10:04 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(30-11-2017 04:02 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  This is an interesting image, taken in 2014 from the ISS. North Korea, the only nation to develop atomic weapons before the electric light...

Ouch... Australia doesn't fare much better.

[Image: 1024px-Australia_night.jpg]
—NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center Scientific Visualization Studio
Not many light globes, and NO nuclear weapons. Consider

The darkness?

It's where the wildlife lives.....

Unsure

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01-12-2017, 01:13 PM
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
(01-12-2017 08:25 AM)abaris Wrote:  I agree with your first two points, but the last about being invaded doesn't really hold water. The North as well as the South have been invaded and subjugated to a rather brutal colonial regime between 1910 and 1945.

It's totally understandable for the North to develop nukes. It's a life insurance for the ruling dynasty (you can't call it by any other name). The bellicose talk is just that, talk. For once it's meant as a deterrent and second, it's the usual asian hyperbolic terminology. Even more so, since the Kim dynasty is also justified by religious and mythological elements. They're using Korean mythology to their advantage.

I don't know. When I was a child, everyone was terribly anxious all the time because they were terrified of a nuclear war. It seems that we are slipping to the other extreme now, in which we are very complacent about the proliferation of nuclear weapons because we don't believe that anyone is going to actually use them. I think that we need to find some place that is in between. It is all fun and games until somebody gets an eye burned out by a white hot nuclear explosion is maybe a bit too complacent. I admit that I don't know how a middle position between the anxiety of the Cold War and today's complacency translates into action.
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01-12-2017, 01:22 PM
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
(01-12-2017 01:13 PM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  I admit that I don't know how a middle position between the anxiety of the Cold War and today's complacency translates into action.
I don't know if anyone is complacent about it. Especially if terrorists get nukes, well, they'd love to blow up a whole city of people.

But, in saying that, NZ, as far as I know, is the only nuclear free country in the world.
And USA got angry at us for that stance and dissolved the ANZUS agreement and refused to include us in any military training exercises with them. Relations have been somewhat strained ever since.

So the US stance is, they want no-one to have nukes except themselves. They want allies to support them in condemning proliferation of nukes (except for their own proliferation of them), but they will get angry if we don't allow their own nukes and nuclear powered war machines into our own countries.
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01-12-2017, 01:32 PM
RE: N. Korea now has missile capable of reaching D.C.
(01-12-2017 01:13 PM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  I don't know. When I was a child, everyone was terribly anxious all the time because they were terrified of a nuclear war. It seems that we are slipping to the other extreme now, in which we are very complacent about the proliferation of nuclear weapons because we don't believe that anyone is going to actually use them. I think that we need to find some place that is in between. It is all fun and games until somebody gets an eye burned out by a white hot nuclear explosion is maybe a bit too complacent. I admit that I don't know how a middle position between the anxiety of the Cold War and today's complacency translates into action.

I spent the first half of my life in the Cold War and lived just 25 miles removed from the Iron Curtain. There were quite a lot of things we didn't know back then, but we knew that we would be the nuclear battlefield if things got hot. So I know a little bit about the feeling which was no different than it is now.

Kim won't use his nukes unless he's invaded. Then all bets are off. It's his life insurance and I really can't blame him, seeing what happened in Iraq and other places. He's pointing the dagger at the South and Japan and that's all that really matters to him. Everything else is just talk.

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