NDEs : Real or Fake?
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11-01-2017, 08:30 AM
NDEs : Real or Fake?
Near Death Experiences are strange because they don't make sense when taken at face value scientifically.

NDEs are reported (not often) and either they are real occurrences or they could just be where someone has a memory of experience which they never really experienced.

So.. let's hypothesise that a theist enters into what they perceive to be a an "NDE"..
1) it could be actually occurring OR
2) At the point of clinical death, which is when the heart stops beating, but there is still brain activity and endorphin is released which when combined with the the theist's preconceived notions of what happens at death create an apparent "NDE"

It is interesting to note that, during a study in 1980s, it was suggested that NDEs are the product of two things. Endorphin which stimulates a blissful or happy NDE and naloxone which seemed to stimulate a "hellish" NDE

Serotonin, thought to be a contributor to feelings of well-being and happiness, is also associated with NDEs and ketamine (a medication mainly used for starting and maintaining anesthesia) has been shown to replicate all features of an NDE

As to whether they are real or fake..I'll leave the readers to make their decison. - C

Oh no. He's here - God
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11-01-2017, 08:36 AM
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
Please see this thread.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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11-01-2017, 08:38 AM
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
I think "real or fake" is asking the wrong question (and a leading one). I don't believe people with these experiences are faking them for the most part. They are real experiences, the question is, what is their validity or meaning and should they be interpreted as indicative of an afterlife?

The operative thing here is these aren't "death experiences"; they are "NEAR death experiences". Even their proponents categorize them properly, so we shouldn't be looking for this as evidence of an afterlife that clearly the subject has not visited, or they'd be dead. They are evidence of what sometimes happens when one experiences physiological conditions that often precede death, such as cardiac arrest. Therefore (2) in your OP is a reasonable and economical hypothesis to explore, and (1) is irrelevant.
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11-01-2017, 08:43 AM
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
They're as true as Jesus dying (and re-spawning 3 days later) for our sins.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-01-2017, 08:47 AM
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
(11-01-2017 08:43 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  They're as true as Jesus dying (and re-spawning 3 days later) for our sins.

Apparently this "deity" isn't as good as the Master Chief in Halo.....

When the Master Chief respawns, he doesn't have holes in his hands and feet like some wannabe's we won't mention........................


heh

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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11-01-2017, 08:52 AM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2017 09:38 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
(11-01-2017 08:30 AM)Cypher44 Wrote:  Near Death Experiences are strange because they don't make sense when taken at face value scientifically.

Actually they make perfect sense, "scientifically".
Brains deprived of oxygen (desaturation)
http://www.ajnr.org/content/early/2012/0...0.full.pdf
do all sorts of unusual things.
What they experience is certainly *real*. It's the interpretation of the experience that's flawed.
It's like saying that what one *under the influence* of a drug or ETOH experiences, should tell them something about reality. Nope.

Rats have NDE's. Are they about to see rat-Jesus ?
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots...xperiences

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-01-2017, 08:58 AM
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
No doubt that those who experience NDEs believe they're real, but whether they're indicative of anything supernatural is another question entirely.

It's highly unlikely, given that hypoxia in the brain causes identical experiences. Fighter pilots in training report NDE-type experiences while they're in centrifuges. It's very common. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/tr...avity.html

Interestingly, before my father died he also had an NDE. It was that experience that convinced him, beyond any doubt, that there was no afterlife, no soul, no God, etc. Alas, he died before we could discuss it further.
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11-01-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
Real neurological phenomenon. Nothing the least bit mystical about them, IMO.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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11-01-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
Read any book by neurologist, Oliver Sacks.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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11-01-2017, 11:00 AM
RE: NDEs : Real or Fake?
(11-01-2017 08:36 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Please see this thread.
Thanks for that Impulse

Oh no. He's here - God
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