NLP
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16-05-2013, 03:52 PM
RE: NLP
(17-12-2011 12:32 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(15-12-2011 04:25 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  What do you think of the so-called neuro-linguistic programming or NLP , guys ?

Thanks , appreciate

There's a reason that Derren Brown keeps using it - he's an illusionist, not a magician of the dark arts. It should also be noted that Penn & Teller on one episode of "Fool Us" stated firmly that NLP was bullshit, and they'd be likely to know. Also, while hypnosis does seem to work with accepting audiences, it probably can't make a person act in a way that they aren't willingly going along with. The MythBusters tested it and found that the suggestion vividly came to mind when triggered (in the conscious mind, not subconscious) and didn't impel them to act against their will.

I don't know how Derren Brown does things like "The Heist" or "The Assassin", but I'm willing to bet - because he's an illusionist - that these things are illusions.

Penn and teller don't at this time say NLP is bullshit. They say claiming to implant images into peoples minds using pictures and suggestion is bullshit. http://youtu.be/evH7FYWGg5A I am still interested to hear what Penn and Teller say about NLP as a whole.
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16-05-2013, 04:46 PM
RE: NLP
There are definitely many many people who exploit the name "NLP" for magic or scams. Why I am not able to dismiss it yet is:
If you go to an Amway meeting, you will see loyal followers swearing by overpriced average products and the whole system. Why people throw away everything for Scientology...
these systems are successfully exploiting a percentage of people and threw language, visual cues and peer pressure, totally convincing them to commit to their system. This has to be explained.
Richard Bandler seems to make sense to me when he talks about working with peoples feelings to convince them of something. Yes the term NLP is loosely used by many con artists. Yes Bandler seems to milk it for all the money he can get (buy why not if he thinks it is right ?).
People are convinced of things for reasons, these have to be explained. The methods Bandler and john Grinder used of studying therapists and hypnotists... who had more success than others sound legit.
I am not convinced either way on this one. What is marketed as NLP for therapy now is quite different to what was written in "The structure of magic". In some ways NLP could explain how people make irrational decisions... I want to see evidence to disprove it, but right now I only see things that suggest the possibility of at least parts of it being credible.

Penn and teller did cover hypnosis in Bullshit, but they did just cover the conmen. in "Bullshit" they say people are more suggestible when hypnosis is used, which is what many people claim hypnosis is. There are people looking at hypnosis with MRI scans. It would be nice if they could talk about these experiments. I don't think they conclusively prove anything, I also have no idea how well the test where done. http://youtu.be/5Q7CoqFud5s this video at 18 - 25m raises questions for me, but can probably be dismissed due to the trials design

I am atheist and very skeptic, but for me we have to look at the evidence before dismissing something. James Randi says there is always a reasonable explanation. I agree. For me the explanation for why people go crazy for Scientology for example, is exactly what NLP rightly or wrongly tries to explain. From what I understand from reading Bandlers book and watching some of the seminars is it is this effect of how people change their mind or perception of things that NLP tries to explain.

Also from what i have read, NLP does not say we literally create reality. they say our perception and reaction to our environment (reality) is very different. they refer to reality as how we interpret the information received by our senses. Not we create the world universe around us. This can be demonstrated buy looking how differently isolated cultured distinguish between colors.

I look forward to your relies.
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16-05-2013, 04:48 PM
RE: NLP
how is NLP inspired by Buddhism? I have not read this anywhere before. I don't ever recall Richard Bandler mentioning Buddhism in his book or lectures. Am I mistaken?????
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16-05-2013, 04:53 PM
RE: NLP
More necroposts?

And three posts back to back like that?

C'mon...

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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17-05-2013, 01:38 AM
RE: NLP
I don't get what people have against necroposting.

If it's relevant to the topic it can be better than restarting a new thread and repeating allot of the same stuff again.

Also it can bring new eyes on the old topic and provide new perspectives.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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18-05-2013, 05:31 AM
RE: NLP
About the necroposting think. I just joined the forum. I did not realize I posted the first time. Then I also remembered one other question i had. My posts and questions are relevant to the subject, you are just complaining about the way I post. Sorry if posting more than once offends you, but I would really appreciate some intelligent replies to what I posted. NLP Is a subject that raises many questions for me, as it seemingly could give possible answers to some big questions I have.
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18-05-2013, 09:18 AM
RE: NLP
As far as I know it's one of countless systems that provide a lens to view the world (in terms of people, communication, and the inner workings of your brain). It's been compared with scientology because this and some similarities with the terminology and concepts. NLP isn't a cult/religion as far as I know.

It might have gotten fragments of some things from buddhism, but as far as I can tell NLP is a standalone creation.

You can check the wiki page, that could say more about the history than I would know.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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20-05-2013, 12:24 PM (This post was last modified: 20-05-2013 12:31 PM by Foxyrenard.)
RE: NLP
(18-05-2013 09:18 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  As far as I know it's one of countless systems that provide a lens to view the world (in terms of people, communication, and the inner workings of your brain). It's been compared with scientology because this and some similarities with the terminology and concepts. NLP isn't a cult/religion as far as I know.

It might have gotten fragments of some things from buddhism, but as far as I can tell NLP is a standalone creation.

You can check the wiki page, that could say more about the history than I would know.

I fail to see the connection to scientology, there is no talk of origin of man or anything supernatural in NLP. I am talking about NLP as Grinder and Bandler wrote it, not the idiots and con artists who exploit it.
It does say that everyone views the world differently. If you show a picture of a man to two different people one might say he is muscular the other fat. i think it is well established that we all have a different perspective in the world.

It purely tries to explain and create a method of how people come to change their mind.

They say they came up with the initial methods from observation of psychologists and hypnotherapists that got much higher than average positive results. The first book was not based so much about the hypnosis side as Richard Bandler then steered NLP towards.

The problem I have is the lack of recent research into the subject. But earlyer studies have helped bring concepts originating promoted by NLP like.
"The vast majority of studies that were done earlier addressed the concept of a primary representational system (PRS) — that people are primarily visual, auditory, or kinesthetic — or the impact of matching sensory predicates on rapport." http://realpeoplepress.com/blog/research...e-evidence
Even though they did say PRS was a deliberate and gross oversimplification.

NLP also helped to show the ridiculousness of some of the main stream therapies.

The link above is quite interesting. I think the problem might be, no one can make money from proving or disproving NLP. The NLP community holds the rights on NLP and it's training. Psychologists would only profit from disproving it, especially since if they can actually cure patients they will loose them all. And the NLP community makes plenty of money from the training already.

SO since the Psychological society have adapted some of its ideas and the way it was created, I would say there is a very strong argument that it is not qwackery.
There seems to be just a massive amount of research to be done either to prove or disprove the idea as a whole and to stop the con artists who just use the name.

Also most of mainstream psychotherapy seems to be more qwackery than NLP. Such documentary films as "Autistic-Like: Graham's Story" and "horse boy" can demonstrate this. I mean the psychiatric community is famous for getting it epically wrong, buy we still fail to criticize that industry with such scrutiny.
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