NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
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29-06-2016, 09:43 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(29-06-2016 09:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-06-2016 08:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you need to go to Youtube for that, maybe you shouldn't have the Mossberg. Consider

Dafuq's wrong with you old man, Manley handles the accounts and the armory. You're just jelly you ain't got no Manly old man.

Me so jelly. Weeping

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-06-2016, 10:06 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(29-06-2016 10:05 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Can you clarify a couple of points here?
Happy to clarify where I can. Smile

(29-06-2016 10:05 AM)SYZ Wrote:  What do you mean "in this day and age"?
Sorry, by "in this day and age" I mean a time in which access to firearms is largely the norm (speaking of America obviously). A person might not like like firearms but they are, in my opinion, the metric by which we measure the ability for an individual to defend ones self. At least in as far as personal weapons are concerned.

(29-06-2016 10:05 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Someone claimed, rightly, that US gun homicides had decreased notably in the last 20-year period, but your comment seems to imply the opposite—that more lately, gun homicides are increasing.
That would be me actually! And yes gun sales and gun ownership continues to climb while gun violence continues to fall. Honestly, and this is just my opinion, but I think the trends of increased firearm manufacturing and decreased gun violence (not that I would go so far as to say that one causes the other) has to logically put to bed the claim that "more guns=more violence" as reality just does not seem to be barring that talking point out, at least not in America today.
Sorry for the confusion!

(29-06-2016 10:05 AM)SYZ Wrote:  And are you (apparently) claiming that firearms are the sole or most efficient form of home self-defense?
Oh my no, certainly not the sole form of at home self defense. I'd say proper at home self defense is a combination of things, such as a functioning security system, alarms as well being properly trained in the operation and maintenance of a firearm, and much more. Just buying a gun and going "OK I'm safe now" would be...shockingly stupid and extremely irresponsible.
I'm not sure I'd use the word "efficient" either as efficient isn't always effective. I mean grabbing a baseball bat from the corner is supper efficient for example but against a person armed with a Mossberg.....not very effective.

At home defense is a combination of things, and I think one of the biggest reasons I include firearms in some (not all, but some) home defense builds is because, while it takes some training, once you are trained your effective no matter your size or gender. A 5'1" 104 pound female shooter is as effective as a 6'3" 210 pound male shooter and I don't think that can really be said for any other means of personal self defense. I don't think having a gun in the home puts you at an advantage over an intruder armed with a gun, but it does make sure you are not at a disadvantage. It's an equalizer, more than an advantage in my opinion.

(29-06-2016 10:05 AM)SYZ Wrote:  If so, is this because many gunshot wounds are fatal, and/or guaranteed to totally disable an assailant—when compared to, say, a machete, baseball bat, pepper spray, wrecking bar, or a taser?
People have survived gunshot wounds to both the head and the heart and in fact advances in medicine mean a GSW is much less likely to be fatal then it was 20 years ago. They are certainly not guaranteed to totally disable anyone. I mentioned earlier int he thread that I know servicemen who have put 5-6+ shitty 5.56 NATO rounds (a rifle round) into a Taliban and had him return fire for a while.
I think it's more that again, while it takes training, it doesn't require any particular expertise or talent that's exclusive to , or heavily dominated by, one build or gender.
A bat, a machete, or a pry bar for example can be very effective in curtain very specific circumstances, but outside of about 3 feet (give or take) however is not one of them. The sword for example was a very good personal defense weapon.....when the height of personal weapons technology was swords. People, both good and bad, have access to firearms and that has to be the metric by which personal defense is measured.

(29-06-2016 10:05 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Can you quote me how many home invasions or aggravated burglaries involved the perpetrator carrying a firearm or using it to kill a home owner?
Off the top of my head? Couldn't say.

(29-06-2016 10:05 AM)SYZ Wrote:  And assuming what you say above is correct, shouldn't that be seen as an appalling commentary on the American way of life—possibly exacerbated by the proliferation of firearms? The statistics cite that there are more firearms in the US than people FFS.
Given that it was a mix up I'm not sure how to respond .. Ummm I don't think the proliferation of fire arms, in light of ever decreasing gun crime, has much to say about America that's appalling per say. I have my gripes with the US, but this is not one of them. I'm not going to get into what mien are right now as it' a bit too late in the day for an slightly unrelated tangent lol

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29-06-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
Certainly, it is a fictional show, but what I love about Doctor Who is that he is capable of solving all of his problems without a gun.
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29-06-2016, 10:14 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
Actually another point I want to make that kinda gets lost in the furor of debate on the topic of at home self defense is that not every instance of self defense ends with the owner wounded/killed or the attacker wounded/killed. It's not always kill or be killed, and if your assailant is armed with a knife (for example) and you are armed with a gun there are times where the presence of a gun CAN deescalate the situation. Where as if I'm armed with a knife and the assailant is armed with a gun ....the control of the situation is out of my hands in in the hands of the person breaking the law.
Not every potentially violent situation has to end in violence, but I'd rather have that determination left up to me and not the person already committed to violating the law.

I've seen to many examples in this thread where the only two options are "get killed" or " open fire in a peopled room".

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29-06-2016, 10:16 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(29-06-2016 10:09 PM)Foxen Wrote:  Certainly, it is a fictional show, but what I love about Doctor Who is that he is capable of solving all of his problems without a gun.
Heart Tennant!

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29-06-2016, 10:17 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
I prefer the example where weapons are obsolete.
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29-06-2016, 10:18 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(29-06-2016 10:29 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(29-06-2016 10:17 AM)KUSA Wrote:  A gun is easier to use than a machete or baseball bat.

I'm not so sure about that. I played baseball and softball for years, and could probably hit a person easier than I could hit a ball (discounting psychological factors). I have never fired a gun, and I'm told that requires some training. Just buying a gun doesn't make me an expert marksman. I'll concede that a gun, properly used by a person with proper training, is more effective than a baseball bat or machete. But easier to use? I'm not convinced.
How good are you at hitting a person with a bat from say 15 feet away? Tongue Heart

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29-06-2016, 10:31 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(29-06-2016 11:36 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(29-06-2016 11:29 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Another quick point about guns being "easy to use": This wouldn't be an issue for me, since I live alone, but if you have children, I sincerely hope your guns are locked up and/or unloaded. In any kind of emergency, that would make them just a bit less "easy to use".

If they're ready for immediate use they're not safe. If they're safe they're not ready for immediate use.
That's just not accurate. In the past I have kept a firearm in a biometric safe, with a smaller biometric safe inside with preloaded magazines. I could access both and have a round chambered in less than 7 seconds and both vaults were exclusively coded to my biometrics.

Just because you can't get to it instantly doesn't mean it's not an effective means of self defense, and just because I can access it rapidly doesn't mean it's unsafely stored.

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29-06-2016, 10:35 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(29-06-2016 01:14 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(29-06-2016 01:06 PM)KUSA Wrote:  It's possible but more likely the invader would be shot and killed.

You're in bed, asleep. Some goon slips into your house, sneaks into your bed room and gently prods your forehead with a gun. You then get up and go find your gun... Oh, wait. Drinking Beverage
So because in one boogyman example of where your unable to utilize a properly stored firearm...firearms aren't an effective or even viable form of at home defense?
Come on man, I can write a bloody ton of examples where guns save the day and everyone goes home happy if that's my intent when I start writing.

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29-06-2016, 10:49 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(29-06-2016 04:15 PM)morondog Wrote:  The reason the prohibition failed was people *really* liked their drinks.

Eh, not really. I mean kinda.. I guess.. though that's an over simplification. Prohibition was a failure for dozens of reasons. Prohibition actually cased an increase in alcohol consumption, it had the exact opposite effect it intended (it almost always does).

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