NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-07-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(01-07-2016 03:25 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 11:06 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I understand you can't hold a rational conversation on this topic.

Let's just see how "reasonable" you are....

You claim -- and I quote "Carrying 24/7 is paranoid". That's rather definitive.

You made a claim -- now quantify it to a position where carrying is NOT paranoid...

Is it one day a week? Two ??? Every third full moon???? When do you think it's reasonable for a person to carry a gun?????

.....

I'm betting all we're going to see here is insults and snark --- you will not answer the question -- without contradicting yourself and showing dishonesty....

I'll attempt to take a reasonable stab at this. To me, as a non-gun owner, it seems a bit paranoid to carry a gun "24/7" (although I'll bet nobody actually does that), or even whenever you leave the house.

But I'll confess that I will not drive a car or ride in one without having my seat belt fastened, and I will not ride my bicycle (not even around the block) without wearing a helmet. I know people who think I'm paranoid in both instances, but I also know that I've been in two serious bicycle accidents, that my helmet probably saved me from serious injury or death in both cases, and that "bike handling skills" (or any other skills) had nothing to do with either accident -- they could have happened to anyone.

If someone seriously feels safer when carrying a gun, I would expect they would want to be carrying a gun whenever they go somewhere (unless they're going somewhere where guns aren't allowed). It wouldn't make sense to just carry the gun sometimes -- just like it would make no sense for me to wear a helmet or seat belt "sometimes". If they really make you feel safer (and in my opinion, it's not just "feels" -- I really am safer), you want to always wear them. Likewise with carrying a gun.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Grasshopper's post
01-07-2016, 04:06 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(01-07-2016 03:41 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 03:25 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Let's just see how "reasonable" you are....

You claim -- and I quote "Carrying 24/7 is paranoid". That's rather definitive.

You made a claim -- now quantify it to a position where carrying is NOT paranoid...

Is it one day a week? Two ??? Every third full moon???? When do you think it's reasonable for a person to carry a gun?????

.....

I'm betting all we're going to see here is insults and snark --- you will not answer the question -- without contradicting yourself and showing dishonesty....

I'll attempt to take a reasonable stab at this. To me, as a non-gun owner, it seems a bit paranoid to carry a gun "24/7" (although I'll bet nobody actually does that), or even whenever you leave the house.

But I'll confess that I will not drive a car or ride in one without having my seat belt fastened, and I will not ride my bicycle (not even around the block) without wearing a helmet. I know people who think I'm paranoid in both instances, but I also know that I've been in two serious bicycle accidents, that my helmet probably saved me from serious injury or death in both cases, and that "bike handling skills" (or any other skills) had nothing to do with either accident -- they could have happened to anyone.

If someone seriously feels safer when carrying a gun, I would expect they would want to be carrying a gun whenever they go somewhere (unless they're going somewhere where guns aren't allowed). It wouldn't make sense to just carry the gun sometimes -- just like it would make no sense for me to wear a helmet or seat belt "sometimes". If they really make you feel safer (and in my opinion, it's not just "feels" -- I really am safer), you want to always wear them. Likewise with carrying a gun.

I don't understand, is it paranoid or reasonable?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 04:14 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(01-07-2016 04:06 PM)Armageddon it Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 03:41 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I'll attempt to take a reasonable stab at this. To me, as a non-gun owner, it seems a bit paranoid to carry a gun "24/7" (although I'll bet nobody actually does that), or even whenever you leave the house.

But I'll confess that I will not drive a car or ride in one without having my seat belt fastened, and I will not ride my bicycle (not even around the block) without wearing a helmet. I know people who think I'm paranoid in both instances, but I also know that I've been in two serious bicycle accidents, that my helmet probably saved me from serious injury or death in both cases, and that "bike handling skills" (or any other skills) had nothing to do with either accident -- they could have happened to anyone.

If someone seriously feels safer when carrying a gun, I would expect they would want to be carrying a gun whenever they go somewhere (unless they're going somewhere where guns aren't allowed). It wouldn't make sense to just carry the gun sometimes -- just like it would make no sense for me to wear a helmet or seat belt "sometimes". If they really make you feel safer (and in my opinion, it's not just "feels" -- I really am safer), you want to always wear them. Likewise with carrying a gun.

I don't understand, is it paranoid or reasonable?

Depends on the point of view. To me, it seems paranoid. To the gun-carrier, it seems reasonable. I think his question was "How often is reasonable?" My answer is that if it's reasonable at all (and I'm willing to concede that, for him, it is), then it's reasonable whenever he feels safer with the gun - which could very well be every time he leaves his house. I don't think there is any magical cut-off as to where it becomes paranoid.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Grasshopper's post
01-07-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
Ok, I understand, it's perspective. As for the paranoia perspective, what makes you think so? What form of altered reality, delusion, or irrationality do you think they perceive?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 04:44 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(01-07-2016 04:21 PM)Armageddon it Wrote:  Ok, I understand, it's perspective. As for the paranoia perspective, what makes you think so? What form of altered reality, delusion, or irrationality do you think they perceive?

I think they perceive more of a threat than really exists. Maybe I've had a sheltered life, or maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never owned or carried a gun, and I've never felt unsafe because of that. And I'm not living in some non-violent paradise. I live in Madison, WI, a midsize city (population of 200,000 or thereabouts), with a fair but not overwhelming amount of violent crime. I'm not rich, so I have lived in some questionable neighborhoods. And I'm 61 years old. So I've made it this far without ever being mugged or attacked. I don't recall ever being in a situation where a gun would have made me feel safer. So yes, the feeling that it's not safe to go out without a gun seems a bit paranoid to me. Maybe people who feel that way live in places that are less safe than where I live. Or maybe they're just paranoid.Tongue

I'm seriously not trying to start a fight here, though. I realize this is very much a matter of perspective.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 04:49 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
Ok, that sounds reasonable enough. I can give another perspective, as I'm one of those who always carries. I think the odds of having to draw and fire my weapon are very low. That does not mean it can't happen. I am trained, I am experienced, and I have the means to carry. I know how I would feel if I were ever in a situation where I could have saved others from harm, except I didn't bring my gun.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 05:10 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(01-07-2016 03:25 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 11:06 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I understand you can't hold a rational conversation on this topic.

Let's just see how "reasonable" you are....

You claim -- and I quote "Carrying 24/7 is paranoid". That's rather definitive.

You made a claim -- now quantify it to a position where carrying is NOT paranoid...

Is it one day a week? Two ??? Every third full moon???? When do you think it's reasonable for a person to carry a gun?????

.....

I'm betting all we're going to see here is insults and snark --- you will not answer the question -- without contradicting yourself and showing dishonesty....

When you can go a week without insulting anyone, then get back to me. Until then you haven't erarned a reply from me.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 07:37 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(01-07-2016 12:42 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 11:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  Then stop generalizing about gun owners.

If you fear change and think our gun violence is acceptable, then sorry, you ARE part of the problem.

I have seen all the bullshit excuses.

1. It's the criminals. Despite out here in the sticks where I live I hear about shootings almost every day done by morons who were legal at time of buy.

2. It's the mentally ill. Ok, I agree, lets make it tougher for them to get.

3. It's the terrorists. Ok, I agree, but include our Christian right too, and lets make it tougher for them to get too..

Nope sorry, if everything worked the way the NRA said and their fear swallowing gullible minons, we would not have the amount of gun violence we do.

Now other than offering up the same old bullshit, give us something we can work with. Otherwise get the fuck out of the way.

Who are you addressing? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 07:43 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(01-07-2016 01:30 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(30-06-2016 06:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is most certainly not a red herring in the context of this thread.

Life has risks and many of them are consequences of our own choices. It is a societal decision to have millions of cars driven by hardly qualified people, to have largely unrestricted access to alcohol, to pollute the air and water.

We each choose to live with certain risks, assuming one has recognized and considered them. We try, as a society and as individuals, to mitigate know risks through laws and education. We have laws regarding who can use of automobiles and alcohol, we have laws that punish their misuse.

Alcohol is a systemic poison, automobiles are an environmental disaster. Each of them cause more deaths than do firearms.

Now go ahead with the "yabut"s, but firearms have legitimate utility.

Again, it's a nonsense to compare motor vehicle fatalities with firearm fatalities. (And I'm actually surprised you did this Chas). Cars are definitely not designed and manufactured specifically to project a deadly missile, as are guns.

That is really not the point. The argument is that we accept risks and some of those are greater than the risks from firearms.

Quote:That's any/all gun's sole raison d'ĂȘtre in the first place. And yes; of course cars can in certain circumstances be considered deadly weapons. I know that in most US states a car is considered just that if, when being pursued by police, it collides with another moving vehicle or strikes a pedestrian.

That's like saying (just as ridiculously) that more people are killed by drowning than are killed by sky-diving; therefore skydiving is intrinsically safe.

Where did I claim firearms were safe? Consider

Quote:And living in a very small, isolated rural town, I must have a car. But I certainly don't need to have a gun.

You need a car because society has decided that the perceived convenience of private vehicles versus public transit is worth the risk of more than 30,000 deaths per year (down from over 40,000 per year) and massive environmental damage.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-07-2016, 07:47 PM
RE: NRA has 2 speeds, sell more or do nothing.
(01-07-2016 02:23 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 11:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  Then stop generalizing about gun owners.

LOL... you mean precisely as you do about the anti-gun lobby?

Oh, really? Where did I do that? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: