NSA going offshore to skirt the law: Why are they treated like gods?
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22-10-2013, 05:57 AM
RE: NSA going offshore to skirt the law: Why are they treated like gods?
I saw the title of this thread and was like, "oh, look! I&I has a sock puppet!" Tongue

As to the OP, I don't believe in privacy. I do believe America is made up of whack-job Christians, rapture and Revelation and all the insanity that implies.

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22-10-2013, 09:10 AM
RE: NSA going offshore to skirt the law: Why are they treated like gods?
(22-10-2013 05:48 AM)BnW Wrote:  I have no idea who these "American Mullahs" are. If you think there is some room of people who decides how this will go, then I think you need to loosen the strap on your tin foil hat.

I'm naturally a skeptic and reject conspiracy theories. But, do you have an alternative explanation for what happened with Ron Paul? SOMEBODY wrote the rule that disqualified Ron Paul, and SOMEBODY loaded the results of the voice vote on the teleprompter before the rigged vote happened. We have cell phone video. Who did that? If it wasn't some powerful people in a room, who made those decisions? That's a serious question. Do you think the teleprompter operator all on his own decided to rig the vote?

And if you say that the decision-makers were only the GOP leaders, then how is it that BOTH liberal and conservative media turned off their cameras and refused to report on such a major news story? Jon Stewart roasted the media on the Daily Show for making Ron Paul "the 13th floor of politics", and falsifying their news reports to hide his progress. BOTH sides of the aisle did this. Are you seriously going to tell me that liberal, left-leaning journalists, all on their own, decided that Rick Santorum would be a better choice than Ron Paul? Ron Paul was quite popular with the left, and Santorum was absolutely hated. So why would the left work so hard to eliminate Ron Paul from getting into office?

This isn't a conspiracy theory, to date it's the only theory. I've never heard an alternative explanation but that some very powerful people were threatened and they had the power to control both sides of the political aisle. The logical suspects are, of course, the military industrial complex, and the banking system. Those are really the only 2 sectors that would have suffered if Ron Paul were elected.

Quote:Meaning what? So, more people gain your self-proclaimed level of superior awareness. Now what? What can they do other than vote? Armed insurrection? The last people who tried that didn't fare very well.

No, my hope is not to change anybody's views. It's just to get people to agree to disagree and lay down their guns and stop using violence to make the other side give in. If we could just get the country to obey the rule of law in the constitution which shifts all these decisions to the state level, the problem would self-correct. You'd have 50 autonomous systems competing for residents and the bad ones would get weeded out as they lost residents. And, liberal areas, like New York, could get liberal laws (like a single payer health care system), while conservative areas, like Mississippi could get whatever backwards laws they wanted (as long as they don't infringe on the basic human rights in the constitution). I'm just hoping one day liberals and conservatives will get sick of fighting each other and just agree to peacefully co-exist in their own states and stop using violence to try to change the other side, since it's a lost cause.
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22-10-2013, 05:46 PM
RE: NSA going offshore to skirt the law: Why are they treated like gods?
I apologize for the "tin foil hat" remark. Your last post makes clear you were being a lot more metaphorical than I realized. Usually I have a good detector for that sort of thing but it failed me in this instance. I shall punish it for that transgression, I assure you.

Anyway, in the context of now what I now understand you are saying; I don't think there is any reasonable doubt that the leadership of each party has a lot of say in who gets to run and who is an acceptable candidate. They control money from the party and they clearly have a view on who gets to run based on their chances of winning a national election. I don't love that aspect of party politics but the reality is that when you have an organization you are going to have an organizational strcture and heirarchy and the leadership will make the decisions. So it always has been, so it always shall be. I do think that Obama slipped somewhat through the cracks on them but I equally think that if he was Barry O'Whiteguy from Chicago, a white guy with middle class upbringings who was a first term Senator with a very liberal bent and voting record, there is no way the Spaghtetti monster's green earth he gets the nomination. But, Hilary Clinton is a polarizing figure and an articulate black man was just what the doctor ordered. So, once his campaign really picked up speed, the Democratic leadership embraced him.

Anyway, the part of this that bothers me is how the press plays along with it. If the leadership of the Democrats and Republicans want to try to influence the outcome of their party's nomination process, bully for them. For the media to go along with it and determine who is a viable candidate and who is not is flat out wrong, though. That is the part of this that disgusts me.

As for your last paragraph, I have no idea what violence you are referring to. Last time I checked, members of opposing political idealogies were not shooting at each other. But, it's been a long day at the office so perhaps I missed something.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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22-10-2013, 06:03 PM
RE: NSA going offshore to skirt the law: Why are they treated like gods?
(22-10-2013 05:46 PM)BnW Wrote:  As for your last paragraph, I have no idea what violence you are referring to. Last time I checked, members of opposing political idealogies were not shooting at each other. But, it's been a long day at the office so perhaps I missed something.

Both sides pass laws which, if you refuse to obey, means you get a court order to comply, if you still resist, armed men (police) show up with guns to arrest you, and if you continue to resist, you will get tased or shot.

Sure, it never gets that far because everybody KNOWS that's the ultimate outcome--that resistance is futile. And we're desensitized to the concept that it's violence if it's perpetrated by the police. If _I_ as a person told you not to smoke some plant and threatened to shoot you if you disobeyed me, you would unquestionably call that violence. If, however, a group of conservatives get legislatures to do just that, you accept that it's not violence if it's a policeman holding the gun.

This is a major difference between liberals and libertarians. Liberals believe it's not violence if it's done by the government. Libertarians point to events like the Holocaust and say that violence is violence no matter who is the perpetrator.
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22-10-2013, 06:08 PM
RE: NSA going offshore to skirt the law: Why are they treated like gods?
(22-10-2013 06:03 PM)frankksj Wrote:  This is a major difference between liberals and libertarians. Liberals believe it's not violence if it's done by the government. Libertarians point to events like the Holocaust and say that violence is violence no matter who is the perpetrator.

uhhhhhh ....... what? So, the Holocaust, which is government abuse at the extreme, is evidence that all violence is equal? Tazing a guy who resists arrest and taking a group of people and dividing them between people who are murdered and people who are turned into slave labor are the same things?

If this is really the Libertarian position, maybe the reason that no one took Ron Paul seriously was because they recognized he was an asshole.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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22-10-2013, 06:30 PM
RE: NSA going offshore to skirt the law: Why are they treated like gods?
(22-10-2013 06:08 PM)BnW Wrote:  uhhhhhh ....... what? So, the Holocaust, which is government abuse at the extreme, is evidence that all violence is equal? Tazing a guy who resists arrest and taking a group of people and dividing them between people who are murdered and people who are turned into slave labor are the same things?

Strawman. When did I ever say all violence is equal? When did I say a slap is equal to a gunshot? There was nothing in my post that made any comparison about what type of violence is worse. All I said is that if you get a bullet in your head, it's violence whether the guy who shot it was a policeman or a civilian. There's nothing in the dictionary definition of 'violence' that says "...unless done by the police."

Therefore, when Democrats and Republicans both ram laws down the others' throats that force them to do things against their will, or else face law enforcement, they _ARE_ using violence. Is it the moral equivalent to the Nazi's use of violence? Of course not. But if you maintain that it's not violence when the guy shooting the gun is a cop, then it's YOU who have minimized the violence perpetrated by the Nazi's.
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