NZ Election.
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18-10-2017, 03:01 AM
RE: NZ Election.
(18-10-2017 02:05 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(18-10-2017 12:05 AM)Stevil Wrote:  The Maori party is a party that is only interested in Maori affairs. They try to gain benefits for Maori.

Not entirely true. If you look at their policies they're actually not half bad.
Really?
I'll see if I can find their policies. I generally write of anyone that represents an exclusive group e.g. race or religion, or just a one policy party e.g. legalize canabis or ban 1080.

On Wiki it lists the Maori party as
"A party that addresses the concerns of New Zealand's indigenous Māori. It crystallised in 2004 around Tariana Turia, a former minister of the Labour Party. It promotes what it sees as "the rights and interests of Māori"."
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18-10-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: NZ Election.
(18-10-2017 03:01 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(18-10-2017 02:05 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Not entirely true. If you look at their policies they're actually not half bad.
Really?
I'll see if I can find their policies. I generally write of anyone that represents an exclusive group e.g. race or religion, or just a one policy party e.g. legalize canabis or ban 1080.

On Wiki it lists the Maori party as
"A party that addresses the concerns of New Zealand's indigenous Māori. It crystallised in 2004 around Tariana Turia, a former minister of the Labour Party. It promotes what it sees as "the rights and interests of Māori"."

I mean, of course, their primary goal is Maori. But they're set up as a central party policy-wise and a lot of their policies are just generally good for NZ. Lowering poverty and all that.
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18-10-2017, 04:28 PM
RE: NZ Election.
New Zealand.

It's like Japan.






... but it's New Zealand.

(Apologies for my insolence)

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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19-10-2017, 02:57 AM
RE: NZ Election.
He went with Labour.
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19-10-2017, 11:25 AM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2017 11:41 AM by Stevil.)
RE: NZ Election.
(19-10-2017 02:57 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  He went with Labour.
Interestingly the coalition is just with Labour which means they don't have enough seats in parliament, less than 50%. He is relying on Greens to support Labour in terms of supply and confidence.

So it is a center left govt. They will supply more state owned houses, but because of Winston they will provide benefits for farming (NZ is a largely Export driven economy), and most likely there will be benefits for the elderly.

We have had three terms of a right wing govt and perhaps the poor have been suffering a bit and the rich/poor divide deepening. So a left govt may help moderate things a bit.

I would have preferred a center right, but I don't think a center left will be all that bad.

BTW, I thought Winston's address and Q/A's with the media was really good. The guy certainly has style and is very intelligent, he knows his stuff.
You try and compare Winston to Trump in terms of professionalism, maturity, knowledge, honesty etc and it's no contest.
But perhaps you compare Trump to anyone above the age of 14 and other person starts to look really good.



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19-10-2017, 06:20 PM
RE: NZ Election.
Quote:We have had three terms of a right wing govt and perhaps the poor have been suffering a bit and the rich/poor divide deepening. So a left govt may help moderate things a bit.

I'll just c&p what I posted in my friends group chat so I don't have to type it up again.

As a National supporter, I'm okay with this. I thought he was gonna side with Labour. National have been in for a while the country could do with a bit of a change. The beauty of our politics is that Labour and National aren't just pola opposites. Both parties are very much pro-NZ, they just have some differing opinions on what's best for NZ (which is fine, everyone has different opinions). Compare that to the US for example and they're more "fuck Democrats! if they suggest something it's dumb and fuck them!" it's so us v them over there. I'm not a fan of Labour BUT I trust that they will run this country well (just as National would have). And the beauty of living in a democracy is that you have these differing parties take turns at running the country. It's the whole purpose of democracy. And so you have like 9 years of a central-right party running things and that was after a central-left (Helen Clarks government) had a turn running things. They balance eachother out so it's not always left wing or always right wing, it's a bit of both and that balance benefits everyone and makes this country awesome. I see/saw this election as the pendulum swinging again, this time towards the left. Next election it might stay left or it might swing back right. Democracy.
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19-10-2017, 06:46 PM
RE: NZ Election.
(19-10-2017 06:20 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  As a National supporter, I'm okay with this. I thought he was gonna side with Labour. National have been in for a while the country could do with a bit of a change. The beauty of our politics is that Labour and National aren't just pola opposites. Both parties are very much pro-NZ, they just have some differing opinions on what's best for NZ (which is fine, everyone has different opinions). Compare that to the US for example and they're more "fuck Democrats! if they suggest something it's dumb and fuck them!" it's so us v them over there. I'm not a fan of Labour BUT I trust that they will run this country well (just as National would have).
Nice call Earmuffs.

It's gonna be fine. Politicians in the major parties aren't boffins like the USA Republicans. They aren't extreme ideologists. Both National and Labour are around the center and having an alliance with NZ First gravitates either one a little bit more towards the center.

Concerns for me are whether Greens are going to be happy to be outside this coallition, they have put themselves into the third wheel position.
And whether Labour can work out a way to partner with Winston (he is head strong and stubborn).


What I have learnt from this election is that the NZ public is a bit more fickle than I thought and that the personality of the party leader can sway the votes (last minute) in significant numbers, despite the actual policies being campaigned.

Some people are worried that NZ First have had too much to play. But I think, despite the ministerial positions some key members will land, most of the policies will be Labour's. This is the way MMP is supposed to work, with coalitions and negotiations and ultimately more than 50% of the votes matter.
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19-10-2017, 08:52 PM
RE: NZ Election.
Quote:What I have learnt from this election is that the NZ public is a bit more fickle than I thought and that the personality of the party leader can sway the votes (last minute) in significant numbers, despite the actual policies being campaigned.

That was my concern with Labour. Ardern I thought was extremely good at selling herself and the Labour party. She knew what to say, what people wanted to hear. She's good at buzz words. But they're just that, buzz words. They had all this "we're gonna do this and that" but never outlined how they're gonna actually achieve that.
I think it was child poverty that their goals were actually less than that of what National was already achieving and had had set. Labour hadn't even bothered to look at the data, they just said "we're gonna reduce child poverty by 20% by 2020" (or whatever it was) and of course their supporters all creamed their pants and that "buzz word". But National had already reduced child poverty by more than that since they'd be in and their goals were much higher than Labours soo...

This is my issue with Labour supporters. They tend to not be fully informed. They're mostly poorer people who tend to not be as educated as they could be and so might be ignorant to politics and what's really happening. They just wanna oppose National because it's not Labour. They like to hear buzzwords but don't wanna ask "ok, how are you going to actually do that?". So yea, Ardern was a master of selling the public the idea of Labour and herself as PM, but when it comes to concrete plans in place Labour was sorely lacking.


Regarding Greens. They disappointed me this year. They took a sharp turn to the far left this election whereas previously they have been fairly central. Their policies used to be rather sensible and pretty realistic. But now they just doubled down on the hippie green bullshit. Destroying the dairy industry isn't a policy that's realistic or popular I don't know what the fuck they were thinking.

Greens need to advertise themselves as a central party that can side with National or Labour just like NZ First. If Greens are out they could have been in with the 'Teal Deal' and formed a coalition with National. But because they positioned themselves so far left this election they effectively ruled that option out completely. I swear to god if I was running that party I could make it the 3rd biggest party and position it so we always got into power every single election. And you need to be in to get your policies into play.
Shaw is just such a fucking twat.
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19-10-2017, 10:59 PM
RE: NZ Election.
(19-10-2017 08:52 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Greens need to advertise themselves as a central party that can side with National or Labour just like NZ First.
That's the thing. National and Labour hardly ever get over 50%.
So they need a coalition. Greens are always left, Act are always far right.
Leaving NZ First as the sole party that can negotiate with both Nat and Lab. So Winston becomes the king maker. If Greens could swing both ways, they could take a lot of the negotiation power away from NZ First. But that's assuming Lab and Green could add up to over 50%.
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20-10-2017, 03:03 AM
RE: NZ Election.
(19-10-2017 06:20 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:We have had three terms of a right wing govt and perhaps the poor have been suffering a bit and the rich/poor divide deepening. So a left govt may help moderate things a bit.

I'll just c&p what I posted in my friends group chat so I don't have to type it up again.

As a National supporter, I'm okay with this. I thought he was gonna side with Labour. National have been in for a while the country could do with a bit of a change. The beauty of our politics is that Labour and National aren't just pola opposites. Both parties are very much pro-NZ, they just have some differing opinions on what's best for NZ (which is fine, everyone has different opinions). Compare that to the US for example and they're more "fuck Democrats! if they suggest something it's dumb and fuck them!" it's so us v them over there. I'm not a fan of Labour BUT I trust that they will run this country well (just as National would have). And the beauty of living in a democracy is that you have these differing parties take turns at running the country. It's the whole purpose of democracy. And so you have like 9 years of a central-right party running things and that was after a central-left (Helen Clarks government) had a turn running things. They balance eachother out so it's not always left wing or always right wing, it's a bit of both and that balance benefits everyone and makes this country awesome. I see/saw this election as the pendulum swinging again, this time towards the left. Next election it might stay left or it might swing back right. Democracy.

I'm going to 'do a Brian' and call BULLSHIT on this.

Dodgy

There's no way you have friends.

Wink

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