National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
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09-12-2012, 03:19 PM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
(09-12-2012 12:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-12-2012 09:43 AM)shiranl Wrote:  50% is not 47%, 50% I could somehow accept since it is not a minority.

And it is good you'll ask those questions. Now, tell me- who will do the change? the minority's government which benefits from the current system? or the people who sat on their couches when their government was hijacked from them?
The people who sat on their couches gave away their government; no one hijacked it.
I stand corrected.
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09-12-2012, 03:48 PM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
just sow a survey where it says 7.9% of Israelis stated they won't vote. Which means 92.1% will vote or at least considering it. I'm pritty encouraged.
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10-12-2012, 07:07 AM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
(09-12-2012 09:57 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(09-12-2012 09:41 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You vote for your government representatives, which in turn vote for the officials who will fix the economy. Misguided votes > Bad Leadership > Shitty Economy.


Well that would require the people of my country, every single person who votes... to be fully informed and educated in the whole monetary system.

Do you think that is the case?


Well, clearly you believe people are so informed that they choose not to vote because of the current course of events. That is certainly not the case, for if they were in any way informed, they'd be voting to fix the mess that they created.

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10-12-2012, 07:08 AM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
(09-12-2012 12:45 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(09-12-2012 08:05 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The absence of a vote is not a vote.
Contradiction is not an arguement.

I know it is not an arguement.

It is an argument, and a correct assertion.

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10-12-2012, 03:29 PM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
(10-12-2012 07:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(09-12-2012 12:45 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Contradiction is not an arguement.

I know it is not an arguement.

It is an argument, and a correct assertion.

I could have taken that as read, you said it and your never wrong are you.

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14-12-2012, 08:17 PM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
In Australia voting (turning up) is mandatory, and informal votes are counted. Voting happens on a weekend so most people can get to booths easily, and those that can't can submit postal votes or vote by other means. If you miss one election you'll get a warning letter. If you consistently fail to turn up you'll be fined. If your decision is that you don't want to vote for anyone you must turn up and cast an informal ballot.
In Australia the responsibilities of a citizen are as follows[1]:
As an Australian citizen you must:
* obey the law
* defend Australia should the need arise
* serve on a jury if called to do so
* vote in federal and state or territory elections, and in a referendum
Like it or not, citizens have responsibilities.

As I said before, the election campaign is influenced by mandatory voting. Because you don't need to focus your energies on getting people to the ballot box the message from political parties is not to their extreme base, but is to the centre of society. Another interesting side-effect is that people who otherwise would have not voted out laziness must actually become a little bit engaged with the political system every few years in order to decide how to cast their ballot. In the end I think both of these properties of a mandatory voting (ie a mandatory turning up) system are of much greater benefit than the potential loss of liberty. If you really don't want to vote you can return an empty ballot paper. Only the lazy need to change their behaviour under the mandatory system.

[1] http://www.citizenship.gov.au/should_become/

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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14-12-2012, 09:44 PM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
(14-12-2012 08:17 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  In Australia voting (turning up) is mandatory, and informal votes are counted. Voting happens on a weekend so most people can get to booths easily, and those that can't can submit postal votes or vote by other means. If you miss one election you'll get a warning letter. If you consistently fail to turn up you'll be fined. If your decision is that you don't want to vote for anyone you must turn up and cast an informal ballot.
In Australia the responsibilities of a citizen are as follows[1]:
As an Australian citizen you must:
* obey the law
* defend Australia should the need arise
* serve on a jury if called to do so
* vote in federal and state or territory elections, and in a referendum
Like it or not, citizens have responsibilities.

As I said before, the election campaign is influenced by mandatory voting. Because you don't need to focus your energies on getting people to the ballot box the message from political parties is not to their extreme base, but is to the centre of society. Another interesting side-effect is that people who otherwise would have not voted out laziness must actually become a little bit engaged with the political system every few years in order to decide how to cast their ballot. In the end I think both of these properties of a mandatory voting (ie a mandatory turning up) system are of much greater benefit than the potential loss of liberty. If you really don't want to vote you can return an empty ballot paper. Only the lazy need to change their behaviour under the mandatory system.

[1] http://www.citizenship.gov.au/should_become/
Sounds fine in theory, but the one thing it obfuscates and the main reason I dislike the idea of mandatory voting is the disengagement and disinterest of the public in the political system in general. It is my hope that the percentage of the people who vote continues to fall, until the mantra of popular mandate is less credible than it is now.

But as Ive said before I'll vote when I live in a democracy.

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14-12-2012, 10:32 PM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
(14-12-2012 09:44 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(14-12-2012 08:17 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  In Australia voting (turning up) is mandatory, and informal votes are counted. Voting happens on a weekend so most people can get to booths easily, and those that can't can submit postal votes or vote by other means. If you miss one election you'll get a warning letter. If you consistently fail to turn up you'll be fined. If your decision is that you don't want to vote for anyone you must turn up and cast an informal ballot.
In Australia the responsibilities of a citizen are as follows[1]:
As an Australian citizen you must:
* obey the law
* defend Australia should the need arise
* serve on a jury if called to do so
* vote in federal and state or territory elections, and in a referendum
Like it or not, citizens have responsibilities.

As I said before, the election campaign is influenced by mandatory voting. Because you don't need to focus your energies on getting people to the ballot box the message from political parties is not to their extreme base, but is to the centre of society. Another interesting side-effect is that people who otherwise would have not voted out laziness must actually become a little bit engaged with the political system every few years in order to decide how to cast their ballot. In the end I think both of these properties of a mandatory voting (ie a mandatory turning up) system are of much greater benefit than the potential loss of liberty. If you really don't want to vote you can return an empty ballot paper. Only the lazy need to change their behaviour under the mandatory system.

[1] http://www.citizenship.gov.au/should_become/
Sounds fine in theory, but the one thing it obfuscates and the main reason I dislike the idea of mandatory voting is the disengagement and disinterest of the public in the political system in general. It is my hope that the percentage of the people who vote continues to fall, until the mantra of popular mandate is less credible than it is now.

But as Ive said before I'll vote when I live in a democracy.
credibility is irrelevant.

If 20% of the population show up and vote, that winning party really is not gonna give a shit. Afterall, they won.

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15-12-2012, 02:05 AM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
(10-12-2012 03:29 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(10-12-2012 07:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I know it is not an arguement.

It is an argument, and a correct assertion.

I could have taken that as read, you said it and your never wrong are you.
Did I say that? I simply said I am not wrong in this assertion. I did not say I am infallible.

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15-12-2012, 02:49 AM
RE: National implications if NOT voting was made illegal?
(14-12-2012 10:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(14-12-2012 09:44 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Sounds fine in theory, but the one thing it obfuscates and the main reason I dislike the idea of mandatory voting is the disengagement and disinterest of the public in the political system in general. It is my hope that the percentage of the people who vote continues to fall, until the mantra of popular mandate is less credible than it is now.

But as Ive said before I'll vote when I live in a democracy.
credibility is irrelevant.

If 20% of the population show up and vote, that winning party really is not gonna give a shit. Afterall, they won.
This is true, it will almost certainly not make a difference, it will probably not stop them saying they represent the people. It is however the closest we have to a chance of breaking the status quo. The status quo, being representative autocracy, not democracy, it is not a choice if you only get to choose who they let you. What it is, is a farce.

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