Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
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22-01-2014, 02:20 AM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(21-01-2014 09:06 AM)Alla Wrote:  It is not God's plan that we make each other suffer.
But God is equally responsible for NOT doing anything to stop us from mistreating each other.
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God's inaction is IN action.
Quote:Another thing. Because we are NOT All-knowing YET we do NOT know what trial is the best for each one of us
I don't have to be all knowing to realize that being raped and brutally murdered is NOT a trial or a test... its a horrible act which no living thing should be subjected with,unfortunately i don't have the omnipotence to make it a reality.
Quote:It was never God's intention to make us each other to suffer.
Oh IT IS.... he's NOT doing anything to stop evil from existing.. that only means one thing GOD IS EVIL.

God loves Us all.. but he'll damn us FOREVER AND EVER if we don't do what he wants.. some love Drinking Beverage
Quote:Only He can decide which trial is the best for each one of us.
RAPE,STARVATION,MURDER,POVERTY etc etc IS not best for anyone.. it shouldn't exist period.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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22-01-2014, 02:21 AM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(21-01-2014 11:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  I don't believe in anything that exists outside of the natural world. I don't even believe in the un-natural world.
Say WHA!? As far as i know the natural world is both observable and testable! and God is NOT observable&testable hence by definition God is supernatural.
Quote:I don't believe in definition of god that is made by men.
Nope! you do believe in Jesus&Jehovah both are man made names.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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22-01-2014, 02:52 AM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
Alla Wrote;

"I don't believe in definition of god that is made by men."

What an odd statement. All definition's of god are human devised--semantics say so: sexism says so--male god, gender says so, homophobia says so, hubris says so, superego says so; Lean in close, I'm going to whisper--these are all parts of god--all human.

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22-01-2014, 03:39 AM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 02:52 AM)Dee Wrote:  Alla Wrote;

"I don't believe in definition of god that is made by men."

What an odd statement. All definition's of god are human devised--semantics say so: sexism says so--male god, gender says so, homophobia says so, hubris says so, superego says so; Lean in close, I'm going to whisper--these are all parts of god--all human.

A god that sends two she bears to murder 42 children for making fun of a balding prophet (2 Kings 2:23-24) hardly seems like the conceptualization of a higher being, let alone a supreme one.

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22-01-2014, 03:08 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 02:20 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 09:06 AM)Alla Wrote:  It is not God's plan that we make each other suffer.
But God is equally responsible for NOT doing anything to stop us from mistreating each other.
[Image: 1epicurus-quote11.jpg]
God's inaction is IN action.
Quote:Another thing. Because we are NOT All-knowing YET we do NOT know what trial is the best for each one of us
I don't have to be all knowing to realize that being raped and brutally murdered is NOT a trial or a test... its a horrible act which no living thing should be subjected with,unfortunately i don't have the omnipotence to make it a reality.
Quote:It was never God's intention to make us each other to suffer.
Oh IT IS.... he's NOT doing anything to stop evil from existing.. that only means one thing GOD IS EVIL.

God loves Us all.. but he'll damn us FOREVER AND EVER if we don't do what he wants.. some love Drinking Beverage
Quote:Only He can decide which trial is the best for each one of us.
RAPE,STARVATION,MURDER,POVERTY etc etc IS not best for anyone.. it shouldn't exist period.
Yes, He can stop rapist. But how can He do it? By taking away from the rapist his moral agency.
This is what I know: God can not take moral agency from people. If He does it He can not be God any more. He will become falling angel or devil.
We all were promised to have our moral agency. It was part of the covenant God made with us. Gods do not break covenants, mortal humans do.

English is not my native language.
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22-01-2014, 03:28 PM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2014 03:55 PM by Alla.)
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(21-01-2014 06:17 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 04:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Only because you asked me first I will tell you.
Deity in my religion is not what mainstream Christians believe deity is.
I think I said enough.

You have not explained anything outside claiming to be a hipster christian.

You have said you have a deity, but do not believe in the supernatural by which deities are defined.

As such, try again, and this time pay note to this portion of my quote:
"in exact and in no uncertain terms"
OK. Only because I was asked a question about my believes I want to be polite and I will give an answer.
Note: If you didn't ask me I wouldn't even talk about it.
So, Gods are intelligent Beings. They have physical bodies that are different than physical bodies of mortal humans. Their bodies are flesh and bones but there is no blood in their veins. There is spirit in their veins instead of blood. That is why They are immortal.
Holy Ghost is member of the Godhead. He is Spirit. He has body that is organized of spiritual matter. He has gender, He is intelligent, He can not be in more than one places at the same time. These intelligent beings(Gods) are all-knowing. What does it mean? It means that They have ability to anything They want WHEN or IF They want to know. They have unlimited access to any info They need or want to know.
About future. They can PREDICT very good future by knowing past and present very good. They can predict any consequences of any action. They can do it like I can predict for example that if I throw a ball up it will fall down.
They also will have access to any future info when it will be available.
They are all mighty. What does it mean? It means that They can do anything. But it doesn't mean that They will CHOOSE to do anything.
But it doesn't mean that each God can create himself or un-organized physical and spiritual matters.
Gods are part of the eternal universe and They apply natural laws for Their own purposes the same way as we do only on different level.
That's it for right now. If you have more questions I will be polite and I will try to answer them.

English is not my native language.
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22-01-2014, 03:40 PM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2014 03:55 PM by Alla.)
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 03:39 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 02:52 AM)Dee Wrote:  Alla Wrote;

"I don't believe in definition of god that is made by men."

What an odd statement. All definition's of god are human devised--semantics say so: sexism says so--male god, gender says so, homophobia says so, hubris says so, superego says so; Lean in close, I'm going to whisper--these are all parts of god--all human.

A god that sends two she bears to murder 42 children for making fun of a balding prophet (2 Kings 2:23-24) hardly seems like the conceptualization of a higher being, let alone a supreme one.

[Image: shebearbaldy.jpg]

in Hebrew "youth" and not "little children".
They disrespected priesthood/God and elderly. God decides when and where we should be born and he decides when it is out time to leave this earth.

English is not my native language.
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22-01-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 03:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 06:17 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  You have not explained anything outside claiming to be a hipster christian.

You have said you have a deity, but do not believe in the supernatural by which deities are defined.

As such, try again, and this time pay note to this portion of my quote:
"in exact and in no uncertain terms"
OK. Only because I was asked a question about my believes I want to be polite and I will give an answer.
Note: If you didn't ask me I wouldn't even talk about.
So, Gods are intelligent Beings. They have physical bodies that are different than physical bodies of mortal humans. Their bodies are flesh and bones but there is no blood in their veins. There is spirit in their veins instead of blood. That is why They are immortal.
Holy Ghost is member of the Godhead. He is Spirit. He has body that is organized of spiritual matter. He has gender, He is intelligent, He can not be in more than one places at the same time. These intelligent beings(Gods) are all-knowing. What does it mean? It means that They have ability to anything They want WHEN or IF They want to know. They have unlimited access to any info They need or want to know.
About future. They can PREDICT very good future by knowing past and present very good. They can predict any consequences of any action. They can do it like I can predict for example that if I throw a ball up it will fall down.
They also will have access to any future info when it will be available.
They are all mighty. What does it mean? It means that They can do anything. But it doesn't mean that They will CHOOSE to do anything.
But it doesn't mean that each God can create himself or un-organized physical and spiritual matters.
Gods are part of the eternal universe and They apply natural laws for Their own purposes the same way as we do only on different level.
That's it for right now. If you have more questions I will be polite and I will try to answer them.

But why do you believe this? You have no evidence that it is so.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-01-2014, 03:54 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 03:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  OK. Only because I was asked a question about my believes I want to be polite and I will give an answer.
Note: If you didn't ask me I wouldn't even talk about.
So, Gods are intelligent Beings. They have physical bodies that are different than physical bodies of mortal humans. Their bodies are flesh and bones but there is no blood in their veins. There is spirit in their veins instead of blood. That is why They are immortal.
Holy Ghost is member of the Godhead. He is Spirit. He has body that is organized of spiritual matter. He has gender, He is intelligent, He can not be in more than one places at the same time. These intelligent beings(Gods) are all-knowing. What does it mean? It means that They have ability to anything They want WHEN or IF They want to know. They have unlimited access to any info They need or want to know.
About future. They can PREDICT very good future by knowing past and present very good. They can predict any consequences of any action. They can do it like I can predict for example that if I throw a ball up it will fall down.
They also will have access to any future info when it will be available.
They are all mighty. What does it mean? It means that They can do anything. But it doesn't mean that They will CHOOSE to do anything.
But it doesn't mean that each God can create himself or un-organized physical and spiritual matters.
Gods are part of the eternal universe and They apply natural laws for Their own purposes the same way as we do only on different level.
That's it for right now. If you have more questions I will be polite and I will try to answer them.

But why do you believe this? You have no evidence that it is so.
If you don't believe what I believe why do you want to know why I believe it?
It doesn't matter why someone believes or doesn't believe.
What matters is why YOU believe or don't believe.
My reasons are not important at all to anybody. They are important only to me.

English is not my native language.
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22-01-2014, 04:10 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 03:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  But why do you believe this? You have no evidence that it is so.
If you don't believe what I believe why do you want to know why I believe it?
It doesn't matter why someone believes or doesn't believe.
What matters is why YOU believe or don't believe.
My reasons are not important at all to anybody. They are important only to me.

Reasons are important! It is what defines all of our convictions in what each of us hold to be reality. If I was certain that my parents were aliens from a distant galaxy, the reasons why would be important for not just myself, but also for the audience. Nothing but an empty claim without my reasons.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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