Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
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22-01-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 04:10 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 03:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  If you don't believe what I believe why do you want to know why I believe it?
It doesn't matter why someone believes or doesn't believe.
What matters is why YOU believe or don't believe.
My reasons are not important at all to anybody. They are important only to me.

Reasons are important!
of course they are! I didn't say that reasons are not important.
I have my reasons and they are very important for me and ONLY for me.
My reasons mean absolutely nothing to you. Because you can not rely on them.

English is not my native language.
In response to my rep: thanks to all for your honest opinions. I appreciate it Heart
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22-01-2014, 04:50 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 04:20 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 04:10 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Reasons are important!
of course they are! I didn't say that reasons are not important.
I have my reasons and they are very important for me and ONLY for me.
My reasons mean absolutely nothing to you. Because you can not rely on them.

I do not want a reason to rely or base anything on it - just want to know WHY one would belive in prophets, and that a God exists as a body of flesh and bones with no blood? Have you seen this body? Last time I will ask as I thought an honest answer would be easier than this has been. A two or three word answer would have been great - Sheeeesh!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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22-01-2014, 06:46 PM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2014 06:54 PM by Alla.)
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 04:50 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 04:20 PM)Alla Wrote:  of course they are! I didn't say that reasons are not important.
I have my reasons and they are very important for me and ONLY for me.
My reasons mean absolutely nothing to you. Because you can not rely on them.

I do not want a reason to rely or base anything on it - just want to know WHY one would belive in prophets, and that a God exists as a body of flesh and bones with no blood? Have you seen this body? Last time I will ask as I thought an honest answer would be easier than this has been. A two or three word answer would have been great - Sheeeesh!
I want to answer to you. Not because I think you will believe me but because I think that your desire to know about my reasons is sincere and your intent is real.
I may be wrong though.

Yes, I received a revelation from God when I was an atheist. This is the most important reason. If it didn't happen I believe I would remain an atheist for the rest of my life.
It is more reasonable to be an atheist unless God gives a revelation.
But when I learned more about Him through LDS Doctrine I found it very reasonable in many aspects.
God has body of flesh and bones and He is part of the universe and He never created matter. This is very reasonable for me.
There many worlds that Gods create because they know natural laws. People try to get involved in nature and overcome it. So do Gods.
It makes sense to me.
People can take place that is not suitable for life and turn it to a place that is suitable for life. Gods do the same only better. It makes sense to me.
I chose to come here on earth and that is why I am here. God didn't throw me in this imperfect world without even asking me. I wanted to do this. It makes sense to me.
Traditional doctrines about one hell and one heaven do not make sense to me. But LDS Doctrine concerning hell and heaven makes lots of sense to me.

English is not my native language.
In response to my rep: thanks to all for your honest opinions. I appreciate it Heart
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22-01-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 03:08 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, He can stop rapist. But how can He do it?
BY making it biologically impossible for anyone to rape or perhaps any bad thing for that matter ?

Again this all boils down to why evil exists and why God created it in the first place.
Quote:By taking away from the rapist his moral agency.
the rapist's right to rape and the murderer's right to murder must be preserved ? wtf ? Shocking
Quote: He will become falling angel or devil.
Okay so what's the big deal here? if he can destroy all that is evil and bad in the world then he should DO IT.. there's no if's or but's here.
Quote:We all were promised to have our moral agency.
You mean our right to do evil? that's just wonderful.

God is like an irresponsible parent who lets his 10 yr old child eat mercury!
Quote:Gods do not break covenants, mortal humans do.
I don't care about covenants! If God isn't morally obliged to stop evil from existing then he IS EVIL and i'm not morally obliged to call this pompous virtually non-existent being as "God".

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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22-01-2014, 07:52 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 06:46 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, I received a revelation from God when I was an atheist.

Think kingschosen got one of them Saul on the road to Tarsus revelations as well. Me? I've received many and they continue to spam my inbox despite the cease and desist warnings. The Word is save yourself, save the world. Be The Word. That is The Word.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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22-01-2014, 07:53 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 04:50 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 04:20 PM)Alla Wrote:  of course they are! I didn't say that reasons are not important.
I have my reasons and they are very important for me and ONLY for me.
My reasons mean absolutely nothing to you. Because you can not rely on them.

I do not want a reason to rely or base anything on it - just want to know WHY one would belive in prophets, and that a God exists as a body of flesh and bones with no blood? Have you seen this body? Last time I will ask as I thought an honest answer would be easier than this has been. A two or three word answer would have been great - Sheeeesh!
Timber
A human being infused with the great wisdom of Robert Green Ingersoll is not going to understand Alla or any Godly incarnations such as Jesus - that's reality.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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22-01-2014, 08:07 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 07:53 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 04:50 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I do not want a reason to rely or base anything on it - just want to know WHY one would belive in prophets, and that a God exists as a body of flesh and bones with no blood? Have you seen this body? Last time I will ask as I thought an honest answer would be easier than this has been. A two or three word answer would have been great - Sheeeesh!
Timber
A human being infused with the great wisdom of Robert Green Ingersoll is not going to understand Alla or any Godly incarnations such as Jesus - that's reality.

In RG's defense, he predated The Prophet Hofmann. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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22-01-2014, 08:25 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 07:53 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 04:50 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I do not want a reason to rely or base anything on it - just want to know WHY one would belive in prophets, and that a God exists as a body of flesh and bones with no blood? Have you seen this body? Last time I will ask as I thought an honest answer would be easier than this has been. A two or three word answer would have been great - Sheeeesh!
Timber
A human being infused with the great wisdom of Robert Green Ingersoll is not going to understand Alla or any Godly incarnations such as Jesus - that's reality.

I know - I will never understand, but I am just intrigued by people's reasoning for following wild ideas. Puzzling and frustrating! I am moving on from this one.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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22-01-2014, 11:00 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 03:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  in Hebrew "youth" and not "little children".
They disrespected priesthood/God and elderly. God decides when and where we should be born and he decides when it is out time to leave this earth.

Bullshit.

In Hebrew, the phrase is qatan na'ar, which is almost always translated as little boys or young children (including all other instances in 2 Kings). If taken literally, your god's prophet had his poor feelings hurt and asked your god to enact revenge on his behalf; and your god obliged him by sending two she-bears to kill 42 children? Believing this as literal truth, you're worshiping a vain psychopath.

So go fuck yourself, you are sick in the fucking head.

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22-01-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(22-01-2014 06:46 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, I received a revelation from God when I was an atheist.

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