Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
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05-02-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(03-02-2014 01:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Your religion, the Church of Latter Day Saints, got their hands on these records for the express purpose of posthumously baptizing the murdered Jews of Europe into your own faith. That your religion would have the gall and the wherewithal, to presumptuously violate the faith of those long since dead or able to protest? The arrogance of such an action is almost beyond human words, I can only imagine it derives from an epic level of myopic narcissism.
Their faith is not violated. When we do baptism for the dead it doesn't mean that they become Mormons/members of the Church of Jesus Christ. In spirit world they are told that work(baptism) is done for them. After they are informed that work is done for them they can reject it or they can accept it. I believe that they accept it and very happy that someone else did what they can not do for themselves.

(03-02-2014 07:18 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  This is just one of the many reasons that your region can fuck right off. Ironically enough, it's also one of the reasons that many others of faith would agree with me when I say that.
My father died as an Atheist. I am happy that he had an opportunity to accept Gospel of Christ in spirit world because baptism was done for him. He could reject it. But I KNOW he accepted it and very happy. I know it because of the vision that God gave me.

English is not my native language.
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05-02-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
Without an opposite we have nothing to measure against.
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05-02-2014, 09:09 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(05-02-2014 03:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  Their faith is not violated. When we do baptism for the dead it doesn't mean that they become Mormons/members of the Church of Jesus Christ. In spirit world they are told that work(baptism) is done for them. After they are informed that work is done for them they can reject it or they can accept it. I believe that they accept it and very happy that someone else did what they can not do for themselves.


My father died as an Atheist. I am happy that he had an opportunity to accept Gospel of Christ in spirit world because baptism was done for him. He could reject it. But I KNOW he accepted it and very happy. I know it because of the vision that God gave me.

More made-up bullshit. You are delusional.

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05-02-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
I've just read the entire thread.

Despite others' rude name calling, Alla, you dominate the thread with patience and persistence. I don't care for your beliefs, but my hat is off to you.

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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06-02-2014, 04:07 AM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(05-02-2014 03:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 01:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Your religion, the Church of Latter Day Saints, got their hands on these records for the express purpose of posthumously baptizing the murdered Jews of Europe into your own faith. That your religion would have the gall and the wherewithal, to presumptuously violate the faith of those long since dead or able to protest? The arrogance of such an action is almost beyond human words, I can only imagine it derives from an epic level of myopic narcissism.
Their faith is not violated. When we do baptism for the dead it doesn't mean that they become Mormons/members of the Church of Jesus Christ. In spirit world they are told that work(baptism) is done for them. After they are informed that work is done for them they can reject it or they can accept it. I believe that they accept it and very happy that someone else did what they can not do for themselves.


That has to be one of the most arrogantly retarded things I have ever read.


(05-02-2014 03:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 01:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  This is just one of the many reasons that your region can fuck right off. Ironically enough, it's also one of the reasons that many others of faith would agree with me when I say that.
My father died as an Atheist. I am happy that he had an opportunity to accept Gospel of Christ in spirit world because baptism was done for him. He could reject it. But I KNOW he accepted it and very happy. I know it because of the vision that God gave me.


Sorry but it's far more likely that your subconscious created an illusion that you wanted to see (your dad accepting your same bullshit delusion), rather than the omni-max creator of the universe gave you a vision to make you feel good while he simultaneously allows millions to starve to death in Africa.

Grow the fuck up, and get medication. Drinking Beverage

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06-02-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(05-02-2014 09:48 PM)Dee Wrote:  I've just read the entire thread.

Despite others' rude name calling, Alla, you dominate the thread with patience and persistence. I don't care for your beliefs, but my hat is off to you.
Thanks, Dee.

English is not my native language.
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06-02-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(06-02-2014 04:07 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-02-2014 03:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  Their faith is not violated. When we do baptism for the dead it doesn't mean that they become Mormons/members of the Church of Jesus Christ. In spirit world they are told that work(baptism) is done for them. After they are informed that work is done for them they can reject it or they can accept it. I believe that they accept it and very happy that someone else did what they can not do for themselves.


That has to be one of the most arrogantly retarded things I have ever read.


(05-02-2014 03:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  My father died as an Atheist. I am happy that he had an opportunity to accept Gospel of Christ in spirit world because baptism was done for him. He could reject it. But I KNOW he accepted it and very happy. I know it because of the vision that God gave me.


Sorry but it's far more likely that your subconscious created an illusion that you wanted to see (your dad accepting your same bullshit delusion), rather than the omni-max creator of the universe gave you a vision to make you feel good while he simultaneously allows millions to starve to death in Africa.

Grow the fuck up, and get medication. Drinking Beverage

Wow, what a cunt.
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06-02-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(05-02-2014 02:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  I only respond to your arguments about God-Creator of your body and this world (whatever His name is).
If you don't even know the name of this supposed "creator" then how are you certain about the fact that there is a creator in the first place ? lol
Quote:OK, I will tell you. Elohim is God of your spirit. Jehovah or Jesus Christ is creator of this physical world.
And you know that because your religious scriptures tells it is right? too bad they're all unsubstantiated and self-contradictory to make any credible claim about our universe.

Hinduism claims that there is a "Deva" influencing human nature and every part of world around us but i know for a fact that its unsubstantiated nonsense and blatant anthropomorphization of nature,all the universe can be explained in a more logically coherent way through science.
Quote:Nothing. You don't need to know them.
People who claim to possess special knowledge intrigue me.
Quote:You creator knows
I don't who this "creator" is.. people who claim to know this "creator" have contradictory beliefs and not a single one of them can provide me with a shred of actual evidence.

This fancy creator of yours might as well not exist.Drinking Beverage
Quote:But I already gave His name - Elohim. You can also ask Jehovah or Jesus Christ.
Hmm.. what about Allah and Krishna ?? are you implying that they're FAKE or any less significant?Consider
Quote:We are not programmed by the creator.
Well you are partially correct.. there is no creator so most likely we are programmed by the natural forces of the universe nothing else.

But if we are assuming that the Creator as a premise then he IS indeed responsible for literally everything that he created.. you cannot just have babies and throw into dustbin saying "That baby is not my responsibility anymore! he has his own free will!"
Quote:Your definition of all-knowing is not real. It is some kind of fiction.
Don't school me on grade school grammar missy! Angry "ALL knowing" should mean exactly what it reads ALL KNOWING not "ALL knowing but not knowing *insert something here*"

How can you not see a gaping hole in your reasoning here?
Quote:But to know consequences of every action is possible only for a person who has this kind of information.
like as if that's a problem to someone who's omnipotent&omniscient! how the hell did God gather all the information to create everything anyway? and how did God create everything anyway? now that's a more important question.Consider
Quote:Also all-knowing person is the person who can get any info that is available any time he or she wants/needs to know.
No that's not an "ALL KNOWING" person that's a normal person.
Quote:Only if your interpretation of what God means by "all-knowing" is correct.
No you just don't have grasp on basic grammar.. Omniscient means "Knowing everything" you cannot change established definitions of words.
Quote:I am telling you about real God and not a fantasy god
Oh God i'm just gonna die laughing at the perpetuated irony of that statement! [Image: Laughing-smiley-face.gif]
Quote:I am sorry. I didn't understand.
You said that people choose to be born in dire conditions.. which i think is NONSENSICAL.

Quote:Yes. God created heaven and earth and everything that is in them
He also created all the "STARS" remember ? Sun is ALSO as star FYI and stars are usually wayyy bigger than planets or gas giants so there's no reason for God to take more time to create sun but create all the other stars in like one day.. when in reality all stars are like Sun..

Who am i kidding ? the numbskulls who wrote this biblical God character were probably goatherders who couldn't even count till five.

its not really a surprise to see so many scientific "Plot holes" in the supposed established facts of your religious scriptures lol

Quote:But where does it say that heaven and earth is absolutely everything?
Where does it say that heaven is all infinite space? What is beyond that heaven that God created and was it created by our God Jehovah? or Elohim?
Did God create material from which He organized this earth or heaven? or bodies of Adam and Eve?
don't you think its a little too late to retcon a story which is like what ? 3000 years old? LOL
Quote:But the spirit(you) who entered physical body that was created made this choice.
I'm pretty sure even if that was the case here no one would choose to be born in inferior conditions.
Quote:There is no direct evidence.
No there is no in-direct evidence either.. or anything that i'd consider as a credible evidence.
Quote:But you know that you are more than just piece of flesh and bones.
Actually no.. i don't think so if you destroy parts of your brain you lose functionality one by one and total death of the brain results in your death now how am i not just the physical brain created by my parents ?
Quote:But I am sharing with you Scriptures that testify this. You don't have to believe.
Of course i don't have to believe as i just now disproved them Cool
Quote:But they still have choice to do what is right in their conditions.
Why are they put in such in conditions in the first place?
Quote:They still can choose to be kind or un-kind to others, to be honest or dishonest. To be hard working or to be lazy. To be creative or not to be creative.
That doesn't really matter when you look in from the cosmic scale.[Image: x675]

Quote:I disagree. Our first instinct is to help others. But our upbringings make us think:
Instinct by definition is something that comes naturally.. we learn about helping others from our parents and friends.
Quote:I agree that responsibility lies on my God IF my God is Creator of my will or your will or anybody else's will. But He is not.
That's like saying if i light a candle its not my fault that candle burns.. of course it is God's responsibility just because we have a will to do something doesn't necessarily exempt God's accountability no matter how you slice it someone who creates everything is responsible for everything.
Quote:If I follow your logic then blame is not on our God but on God who created our God.
There is a God's God ?? what is this a cartoon show? this is getting too absurd and you were saying that i was being fictitious ? lol
Quote:But I am so happy to know that no suffering is in vain especially when we talk about innocent victims.
[Image: wishful-thinking.png]

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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07-02-2014, 03:18 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
Well the ONLY defense I ever come across is the one where we deserve it cause of original sin OR that he is too busy to give a shit. Both defenses are full of shit though.
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