Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
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18-01-2014, 08:36 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 03:49 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 03:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't believe this opinion is true.

"I don't believe this opinion is true". I guess can give this answer to any question possible without an argument and get away with it.

you said:"It's a problem that only exists in your worldview."
I said:"I don't believe this opinion is true".
where is the question?

P.S. Your questions were answered?

English is not my native language.
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18-01-2014, 08:49 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 07:33 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
Quote:Alla wrote
Innocent victims passed their trials and they became stronger. Their lives were not in vain as some atheists BELIEVE.
Many of those innocent victims did not pass their trials and became weaker.
In what way they didn't pass their trials and became weaker? Explain please.

(18-01-2014 07:33 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Eg in the holocaust many sincerely believing jews did lose their faith, become weaker and die cruel deaths. (same applies to Gulags or choose your atrocity whether naturally occurring or man made)
How do you know they lost their faith? how do you know they failed the test by loosing their faith? how could they fail the test if they didn't have an opportunity to fight back? point of the test is to fight and overcome. But when we CAN'T we don't fail anything.

(18-01-2014 07:33 PM)Baruch Wrote:  According to Christianity not only did these previous believers get tortured & die cruel deaths - they go to Hell !
...and Christians call that God's Justice.
this is false doctrine.

(18-01-2014 07:33 PM)Baruch Wrote:  ...can it seriously get more deluded than this ???
I agree it is deluded to believe that innocent victims are going to hell.
Innocent victims will have their rewards and their lives and suffering were not in vain.

(18-01-2014 07:33 PM)Baruch Wrote:  In any case - how do you know these innocent lives are not in vain ?
Because God gave revelations that support my statement.

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18-01-2014, 08:59 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 07:47 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Alla - often there are long periods of stasis with no progression eg the example I gave on the Bubonic Plague. You are telling me that the 1000 years prior to some progress were a complete waste of time & grotesque amount of needless suffering with millions dead in a horrific way ! (bubonic plague is a particularly nasty way to die)
waste of time? are we wasting our time or working very hard to find solutions?
do you think people didn't think hard to find solutions to their problems?
every innocent victim will be rewarded and no life is in vain.
every one of us chose to come here and learn and grow. we knew that it won't be easy.

English is not my native language.
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18-01-2014, 09:06 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 08:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 03:48 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Are you asking if we created a treatment for bubonic plague?
Not for fucking centuries, at least an effective one. And even now our treatments are ineffective after roughly 24 hours after initial symptoms.
Then we didn't find this part of the truth yet. We have to continue to fight. We fight - we look for solutions - we grow.

(18-01-2014 03:48 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  And I'm pretty sure bubonic plague was never ever a 'blessing' to anybody, what with the diseases' habit of rotting your body from the inside and out.
Nobody says that illness is a blessing. If you noticed I call it EVIL or ENEMY which we have to FIGHT and OVERCOME. But an opportunity TO FIGHT(trial) will help us to grow, to progress. Opportunity to grow/progress is a blessing

(18-01-2014 11:15 AM)Alla Wrote:  To be a subject to trials/natural laws is a blessing. It gives us endless opportunities to progress and to be kind and compassionate to others.

You said that in reference to disease, creating the implication that diseases are 'trials' and thus by your own correlation, 'blessings'.

Either you have a poor grasp of the English language or a memory problem.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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18-01-2014, 09:32 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 09:42 PM by Hafnof.)
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 08:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 07:47 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Alla - often there are long periods of stasis with no progression eg the example I gave on the Bubonic Plague. You are telling me that the 1000 years prior to some progress were a complete waste of time & grotesque amount of needless suffering with millions dead in a horrific way ! (bubonic plague is a particularly nasty way to die)
waste of time? are we wasting our time or working very hard to find solutions?
do you think people didn't think hard to find solutions to their problems?
every innocent victim will be rewarded and no life is in vain.
every one of us chose to come here and learn and grow. we knew that it won't be easy.

And yet when we look back at those times we find it is our religion - our supposed connection to God - that is one of the greatest hindrances to progress on these issues. Do you support the medical research needed to solve the problems of today in order to fulfil our blessings... or is our medical research an affront to your god?

Religious logic:
Problem to be solved = God wants us to suffer. He has a purpose.
Solving the problem = An affront to the will of the almighty.
Solved problem = Thank the almighty for his wondrous blessing. He placed these trials before us, but never more than we could take. Never that. He enabled us to overcome and that brought us closer to him and his wonderful love.

Do you support stem cell research, for example?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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18-01-2014, 10:22 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 09:06 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 08:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  Then we didn't find this part of the truth yet. We have to continue to fight. We fight - we look for solutions - we grow.

Nobody says that illness is a blessing. If you noticed I call it EVIL or ENEMY which we have to FIGHT and OVERCOME. But an opportunity TO FIGHT(trial) will help us to grow, to progress. Opportunity to grow/progress is a blessing

(18-01-2014 11:15 AM)Alla Wrote:  To be a subject to trials/natural laws is a blessing. It gives us endless opportunities to progress and to be kind and compassionate to others.

You said that in reference to disease, creating the implication that diseases are 'trials' and thus by your own correlation, 'blessings'.

Either you have a poor grasp of the English language or a memory problem.

My native languages are Ukrainian and Russian.
OK, I want to be more clear. Diseases are evil/enemy. Trials are opportunities to grow and fight evil/enemy. This opportunities to grow can be called blessings.

English is not my native language.
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18-01-2014, 10:27 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 02:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 02:50 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I don't want to be like the Christian, Jewish or Muslim gods, they are evil cunts!
This is the choice that you are free to make. Thumbsup
I didn't realise that I had the choice to flood the world and kill almost everyone, or to spread a plague and kill the first born of Egyptians or to make bets with the devil to agree to him to destroying a loyal follower's family and life just to see if he remains loyal, (even though, knowing everything, I ought to know the answer without having to kill people).

This myth is ridiculous don't you know.
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18-01-2014, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 11:39 PM by Alla.)
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 09:32 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  And yet when we look back at those times we find it is our religion - our supposed connection to God - that is one of the greatest hindrances to progress on these issues.
If we believe that Devil is real we believe that he wants opposite of what God wants. God wants us to progress. Devil doesn't want us to progress.
Religions that fight progress are false religions. False religions are from Devil. All lies are from him.


(18-01-2014 09:32 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Do you support the medical research needed to solve the problems of today in order to fulfil our blessings... or is our medical research an affront to your god?
of course I support medical research. Everything what solves problems is GOOD. This is the point of our lives - try to solve the problems/fight with evil and grow.
P.S. I have to note that if we have different ways to solve the problem we have to use the best way.

(18-01-2014 09:32 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Religious logic:
Problem to be solved = God wants us to suffer. He has a purpose.
Solving the problem = An affront to the will of the almighty.
Solved problem = Thank the almighty for his wondrous blessing. He placed these trials before us, but never more than we could take. Never that. He enabled us to overcome and that brought us closer to him and his wonderful love.
I agree with everything accept one thing:"He wants us to suffer"
He wants us to overcome and to endure to the end so we can grow.

(18-01-2014 09:32 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Do you support stem cell research, for example?
I don't know.
It depends. if it is necessary to kill one life in order to save another life I don't support. If it is not necessary to kill one life in order to save another life I support it.
If someone wants/CHOOSES to sacrifice his/her life to save another life I support it.

English is not my native language.
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18-01-2014, 11:21 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 10:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  My native languages are Ukrainian and Russian.

Do not use that as an excuse. Other than minor grammar mistakes, what you write is perfectly understandable. Language is not the problem.

(18-01-2014 10:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  This opportunities to grow can be called blessings.

Only if one is an insane person.
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18-01-2014, 11:23 PM
RE: Natural evil - whats the best theistic defence you have come across...?
(18-01-2014 10:27 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 02:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  This is the choice that you are free to make. Thumbsup
I didn't realise that I had the choice to flood the world and kill almost everyone, or to spread a plague and kill the first born of Egyptians or to make bets with the devil to agree to him to destroying a loyal follower's family and life just to see if he remains loyal, (even though, knowing everything, I ought to know the answer without having to kill people).

This myth is ridiculous don't you know.
Justice is not wrong thing to do. It is right thing to do. Worship idols and sacrifice own children to those idols is evil. Justice is this: kill the killers or remove children form the evil doers to a better place/environment.
God is Justice.

English is not my native language.
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