Naturalism = Nihilism?
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25-07-2014, 07:32 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
@ Bucky?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_nihilism
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25-07-2014, 07:52 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(25-07-2014 07:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-07-2014 07:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  Would you care to explain a possible mechanism for group selection? Consider

It's not about groups or individuals - it's an algorithm about genes and gene pools.

It's about INDIVIDUAL behaviors that promote survival of the group.

Nope.

Individuals will engage in behaviors that are beneficial to themselves even if detrimental to the group - even if it leads to the extinction of the species.

It can be no other way.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-07-2014, 08:24 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(25-07-2014 07:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-07-2014 07:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It's about INDIVIDUAL behaviors that promote survival of the group.

Nope.

Individuals will engage in behaviors that are beneficial to themselves even if detrimental to the group - even if it leads to the extinction of the species.

It can be no other way.

But isn't it true that again and again we see individuals in nature sacrificing for the good of the group precisely because in the big picture, it benefits their own chances for survival? Not sacrificing themselves completely, but behaving in what might seem to be a selfless manner in order to gain the benefits that the group has to offer.
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25-07-2014, 08:32 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(25-07-2014 08:24 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(25-07-2014 07:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Nope.

Individuals will engage in behaviors that are beneficial to themselves even if detrimental to the group - even if it leads to the extinction of the species.

It can be no other way.

But isn't it true that again and again we see individuals in nature sacrificing for the good of the group precisely because in the big picture, it benefits their own chances for survival? Not sacrificing themselves completely, but behaving in what might seem to be a selfless manner in order to gain the benefits that the group has to offer.

Not generally, no.

There is behavior that promotes the welfare of kin - close relatives. They share many genes and it is beneficial to gene survival.

Don't mistake this for any kind of conscious calculation or plan. The genes 'for' choosing to pass on genes out-compete those that don't.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-07-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(25-07-2014 08:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-07-2014 08:24 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  But isn't it true that again and again we see individuals in nature sacrificing for the good of the group precisely because in the big picture, it benefits their own chances for survival? Not sacrificing themselves completely, but behaving in what might seem to be a selfless manner in order to gain the benefits that the group has to offer.

Not generally, no.

There is behavior that promotes the welfare of kin - close relatives. They share many genes and it is beneficial to gene survival.

Don't mistake this for any kind of conscious calculation or plan. The genes 'for' choosing to pass on genes out-compete those that don't.

That must be why all those soldiers die for their country I guess.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-07-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(25-07-2014 07:32 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  @ Bucky?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_nihilism

Then why didn't you SAY you were talking about moral nihilism (which is NOT the same as Nihilism) in your damn OP. I still think you have no clue what you're even talking about. Every time someone points out your bullshit wyou move the goal posts, and accuse them of playing "word games", when in fact it is YOU that are doing exactly that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-07-2014, 08:47 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
The aim of the thread, was not a discussion on how "morality" evolved (descriptive - what "is" - the hard facts of nature)....

I'm asking if there is a True(not arbitrary, not a personal opinion, not a social construct) difference between, what we call right/wrong? (prescriptive - what we "ought" to do)
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25-07-2014, 08:49 PM
Naturalism = Nihilism?
Nietzsche101, you've expressed nothing but dissatisfaction with every bit of commentary we have offered you. What are you really looking for? Reassurance? Promises? Guarantees?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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25-07-2014, 08:51 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
"Every time someone points out your bullshit wyou move the goal posts"

Most users here seem to agree with most of what I've been saying..... where's this bullshit, that you'd like me to clarify for ya?
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25-07-2014, 08:53 PM
Naturalism = Nihilism?
(25-07-2014 08:51 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  "Every time someone points out your bullshit wyou move the goal posts"

Most users here seem to agree with most of what I've been saying..... where's this bullshit, that you'd like me to clarify for ya?

Like who exactly?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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