Naturalism = Nihilism?
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29-07-2014, 12:28 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(29-07-2014 12:16 AM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  "the selfish pleasure I would receive from returning the money would outweigh the value of any amount of unearned wealth"

- says who, you? Rand?

certainly not everyone!

No. Not everyone yet but give us a chance. Remember that religion has had over 2,000 years to spread their anti life morality. We haven't even had a century yet but we're working on it.

I've actually experienced your wallet scenario first hand and I can report that yes, it did give me a lot of pleasure to return the money.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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29-07-2014, 12:29 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
"Now who would you rather find your lost wallet whether it contained $100 or $10,000, me, a committed Objectivist or a moral nihilist? "

This is irrelevant to the topic of discussion....

(if your telling the truth) I'd much prefer you to pick it up....
I'd also rather a Christian who think's he'll burn in hell for stealing, to pick it up!
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29-07-2014, 12:34 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(29-07-2014 12:29 AM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  "Now who would you rather find your lost wallet whether it contained $100 or $10,000, me, a committed Objectivist or a moral nihilist? "

This is irrelevant to the topic of discussion....

(if your telling the truth) I'd much prefer you to pick it up....
I'd also rather a Christian who think's he'll burn in hell for stealing, to pick it up!

Yes but the Christian could not give you a rational reason to give it back and I can. If the Christian lost his faith he might go off and buy a new toaster and rationalize the decision. After all he has had plenty of experience with rationalization as a Christian.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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29-07-2014, 12:36 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
"Yes but the Christian could not give you a rational reason to give it back and I can."

- your reason was, because it gives you maximum pleasure........ well what if it doesn't?
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29-07-2014, 12:41 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(29-07-2014 12:36 AM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  "Yes but the Christian could not give you a rational reason to give it back and I can."

- your reason was, because it gives you maximum pleasure........ well what if it doesn't?

No you misunderstand. My real reason would be because I value honesty. The pleasure part would just be icing on the cake.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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29-07-2014, 12:42 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
"No you misunderstand. My real reason would be because I value honesty"........... well what if I don't?

I'm failing to see how your reasoning is anything more than "do as you like"
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29-07-2014, 12:52 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(28-07-2014 10:05 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I've already explained this. They stem from the law of identity. And yes they are socially constructed but what makes them objective is if they are based on what is good for man according to his nature which is not socially constructed.
It is in man's nature to rape and pillage, to murder, to make unholy alliances and plunder land and riches from others.
It is also in man's nature to be kind and gentle, to avoid confrontation...

So really, its up to each of us to decide how to behave. It is impossible for us to act against our own nature for we are diverse and capable of a plethora of actions.

I get to decide what is good for me, and if killing you is good for me, then so be it.
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29-07-2014, 12:54 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(28-07-2014 10:19 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Put it this way. Who would you rather live with? People who hold your rights as sacrosanct as their own or people who have no objective standard of right and wrong. Would you rather live next to John Locke or Attila the Hun.
I would rather live with a person that values tolerance and diversity rather than having a desire to force others to their own moral standard.

I'd pick a moral nihilist over that any day.
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29-07-2014, 12:59 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
@stevil

moral nihilist = a person that values tolerance and diversity??....


this just sounds like another set of objective values....
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29-07-2014, 01:00 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(29-07-2014 12:42 AM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  "No you misunderstand. My real reason would be because I value honesty"........... well what if I don't?

I'm failing to see how your reasoning is anything more than "do as you like"

I know and I don't understand why.

If you don't value honesty then there probably isn't anything I can say to convince you.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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