Naturalism = Nihilism?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-07-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 05:35 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  I am saying that I am strongly inclined to do what is "right" in a universal sense(as defined by Sam = the well being of all conscious life) even when doing what is "right" works directly against me.

When asked to decided between what is right for me, or what is right for everyone.
Why do/should I choose the latter?

Words like empathy, sympathy, compassion and pity come to mind. These are natural functions of the brain.
If we were all born sociopaths then the idea of what is morally right would be very different.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
The theory of evolution alone seems to tell me that any state of mind working against our own personal(material) well-being is not a very natural function of the brain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 06:29 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
But that's to assume that our bodies are evolved enough to have caught up with all the advancements that we've made - particularly when it comes to language and also in terms of technology.

Evolution in humans is an incredibly slow process but human advancement is not...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



My youtube musings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFoxbz...UVi1pf4B5g
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 06:31 PM
Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 05:58 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  "The two are not always mutually exclusive."
No not always, I acknowledged this!... but sometimes they are, so can we acknowledged that fact??

when people use the word Morality, they are normally talking about a choice between doing what is right for everyone(good) or to do what is good for only ourself(bad).... they are not just talking about "I ought to be unselfish so that I can be more thoroughly selfish"



"Haven't you ever chosen to be selfish before? Do you recall the result?"
Yes I have chose to be selfish before, in this capitalist society it often seems to work in my favour, although it hurts my "conscience"...

It may seem to work in your favor, but that is dependent on how you measure it. Don't forget to take into consideration both the short-term (which you've already experienced) and long-term (which you've yet to experience) effects.

Also, you seem to be excluding your conscience from the equation as though you think it doesn't count for anything. Why? You do realize you at least must live with yourself the rest of your life even if you manage to somehow avoid everyone else (good luck on this planet).

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 06:47 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 05:35 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  I am saying that I am strongly inclined to do what is "right" in a universal sense(as defined by Sam = the well being of all conscious life) even when doing what is "right" works directly against me.

When asked to decided between what is right for me, or what is right for everyone.
Why do/should I choose the latter?

I think you are making an important error here. "Everyone" is simply the total of all the individuals in the society. There is no such entity as "everyone". There can be no conflict between what is right for the individual and what is right for everyone. If there is a conflict then that is a real clue that what you are doing is not good for you either.

What is best for society is what is best for the individual and vice versa. If what you want to do will be harmful to "everyone" then it will be harmful to you in the long run.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 06:53 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
I'm not quite sure what your trying to say, but it think it's still besides my point anyway...

I don't think it offers a rational answer as to why we should, when put in this situation, chose a over b in the following:
a) a action that is "good" for the "whole"(be it our family, group, our species, or all concious life) - but is "bad" for me
b) an action that is "bad" for the "whole" - while "good" for me.


I mean surely we have all faced this dilemma in our life.... you have to be very naive to say there's never a division between what is best for the whole, and what is best for our own individual selfs?


Is there a rational answer(which doesn't involve a soul) which can answer why we do/should chose the self sacrificing option, over the one of self preservation??
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 06:56 PM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2014 07:02 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 06:53 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  I mean surely we have all faced this dilemma in our life.... you have to be very naive to say there's never a division between what is best for the whole, and what is best for our own individual selfs?

Is there a rational answer(which doesn't involve a soul) which can answer why we do/should chose the self sacrificing option, over the one of self preservation??

Sure. Self is illusory and irrational and ultimately untenable. No such creature. Sure as shit don't warrant any special consideration more than the boogeyman under the bed.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
Self is illusory? then who knows that? who is talking to me? who is "Sure as shit" that it "don't warrant special consideration?"


.....would you have any problems being called a nihilist?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2014 07:31 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 07:01 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  Self is illusory? then who knows that? who is talking to me? who is "Sure as shit" that it "don't warrant special consideration?"

Whatever it is that is sustaining and promoting the illusion. I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ! pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain.

(23-07-2014 07:01 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  .....would you have any problems being called a nihilist?

I do consider myself one. But not some passive pussy nihilist like Schopenhauer ("Woe is me. Oh woe is me. Eyor. Eyor.") More like Nietzsche's active nihilism ("Buck up little trooper. You want some meaning? Well get your flabby ass out there and make some. :slapass:")

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 07:18 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(21-07-2014 11:29 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  It appears to me, that atheism/naturalism can only lead us to nihilism, when taken all the way to it's logical conclusions... yet I see almost no one who will acknowledge/address this.

What grounds can we stand upon when we wish to call something "wrong"?

Are right/wrong merely subjective preferences?

This notion that naturalism/ atheism leads to nihilism is false. It is the result of a fundamental error in thinking. The error is all the way down at the base of knowledge and it is the fundamental error in all forms of Subjectivism including the intrinsicism of religion. It is the result of a faulty view of metaphysical primacy.

The error is the subjective view of reality or the primacy of consciousness view of reality. If one holds this view then all values ultimately come from a consciousness, and it is understandable that someone holding this view would think that without God there is no values and life has no meaning and that there is no source of morality.

But this view, the primacy of consciousness is wrong and demonstrably so. The fact is that values are not intrinsic nor are they subjective. Values are objective.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: