Naturalism = Nihilism?
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23-07-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
"Values are objective"......... care to back this up??
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23-07-2014, 07:32 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
and GirlyMan, I'm interested in this view also...
How does the "will to power" work, without a self to will it?
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23-07-2014, 07:40 PM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2014 08:17 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 07:32 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  and GirlyMan, I'm interested in this view also...
How does the "will to power" work, without a self to will it?

My interpretation of Nietszche's "will to power" is "will to self".

#sigh
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23-07-2014, 08:03 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 06:24 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  The theory of evolution alone seems to tell me that any state of mind working against our own personal(material) well-being is not a very natural function of the brain

Wrong again. Evolution promotes the survival of the GROUP, not individuals.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-07-2014, 08:04 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 06:47 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  There can be no conflict between what is right for the individual and what is right for everyone.

Of course that conflict exists.

It's the conflict between self preservation and preservation of the species.

This stuff is hard wired into our brain, allowing us to make super fast decisions in certain situations - jump out of the way of a car to save ourselves or jump in front of the car to snatch up a toddler.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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23-07-2014, 08:18 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(21-07-2014 11:29 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  It appears to me, that atheism/naturalism can only lead us to nihilism, when taken all the way to it's logical conclusions... yet I see almost no one who will acknowledge/address this.

What grounds can we stand upon when we wish to call something "wrong"?

Are right/wrong merely subjective preferences?
I agree that nihilism is the logical conclusion to atheism. I embrace it.
But there are many atheist that insist on the existence of a moral standard, even though most of them seem to call this standard subjective, which of course means that it isn't a standard, but can only be a personal opinion at most.

Anyway, people believe in whatever they feel makes sense to them, be it gods, be it morality, or whatever.
There is no requirement for an atheist to not believe in morality. So I guess, logically they can lack a belief in gods but also hold a belief in morality at the same time.

There is also a problem for believers.
If you believe that your god creates the law, the rules, and that you must obey. Then this isn't morality, it is authoritarianism and coercion.
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23-07-2014, 08:28 PM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2014 08:46 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 08:18 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I agree that nihilism is the logical conclusion to atheism.

Ya' got it ass backwards. Nihilism entails atheism, but atheism don't entail nihilism. ... Mr. Woof? Phone on the floor for Mr. Woof. Mr. Woof? ... Luminon? Luminom? ... Bueller. Bueller. Bueller.

#sigh
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23-07-2014, 08:29 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
OK so, "Evolution promotes the survival of the GROUP, not individuals."....

How exactly does this information answer my question in any type of practical sense

why chose a over b..?
a) a action that is "good" for the "whole"(be it our family, group, our species, or all concious life) - but is "bad" for me
b) an action that is "bad" for the "whole" - while "good" for me.


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"If you believe that your god creates the law, the rules, and that you must obey. Then this isn't morality, it is authoritarianism and coercion."

I'm just talking about a strange thing I have called a "conscience", I do what is right to keep that happy, that is who I feel I am deep down.... this is very different than authoritarian law.
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23-07-2014, 09:38 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 08:29 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  why choose a over b..?

Why choose at all?

#sigh
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23-07-2014, 09:50 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
Because we live in a world where you have to make choices.....

what is your point?

...though I think I'd rather hear from someone who would actually like to engage the question propperly
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