Naturalism = Nihilism?
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24-07-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
To Dom and nietzsche101,

I appreciate your replies and I really, really want to have this discussion with you. I'll be working all day and into the evening so if you are willing, I'd like to continue discussing these issues with you. It will probably be late tonight before I can respond in depth. I think I have some important things to add though and some relevant observations.

Thank you,

Scotsman

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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24-07-2014, 01:47 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(24-07-2014 06:26 AM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  I do agree with you though! we should do the right thing because of "empathy"(though I referred to it as "keeping my conscience happy")

But what I think I've realised is that, this is not rational at all, to choose empathy>just yourself; is really a type of "faith".

A Faith that I think we should hold, and we should be honest about...
Just because we have emotions it doesn't mean that our empathy is the source of authority as to right and wrong.
I don't agree that we "Should do the right thing because of emotions." we are each free to base our decisions however we see fit. Some people use their brains, some use their emotions....
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24-07-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(24-07-2014 01:47 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Some people use their brains, some use their emotions....

Well that's rather a false dichotomy...

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24-07-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(23-07-2014 08:29 PM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  OK so, "Evolution promotes the survival of the GROUP, not individuals."....

How exactly does this information answer my question in any type of practical sense

why chose a over b..?
a) a action that is "good" for the "whole"(be it our family, group, our species, or all concious life) - but is "bad" for me
b) an action that is "bad" for the "whole" - while "good" for me.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"If you believe that your god creates the law, the rules, and that you must obey. Then this isn't morality, it is authoritarianism and coercion."

I'm just talking about a strange thing I have called a "conscience", I do what is right to keep that happy, that is who I feel I am deep down.... this is very different than authoritarian law.

You *can* chose "a" over "b " (example a soldier who *decides* to put himself in danger for his *group*. Why do it ? Because they have a learned response to the situation. Which is what a "conscience" is. A learned set of values in memory, which are referenced by the sensory input of a given situation. At some level a response is evoked. THAT is what "morality" is. A learned set of references for use by various sensory inputs. It's ALL in your brain. And no gods, (even in situations where humans *say* they are referencing divine laws are anywhere else). Only in your head.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-07-2014, 02:49 PM
Naturalism = Nihilism?
Nietzsche101, you seem hung up on having a rationale for your behavior.

How do you want to behave? How do you not want to behave? Are you concerned that in the absence of rationale or "objective morality" as was suggested earlier you will somehow lapse into undesirable behavior? Why?

Can you name others you've witnessed lapsing into the same undesirable behavior? I'm fairly sure it's not common but haven't measured.

I guess another question is, is it your own behavior you're worried about or that of your fellow humans? Both?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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24-07-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(24-07-2014 06:26 AM)nietzsche101 Wrote:  unless you can define "empathy" to mean something more than "acting kind, because it is in our best interest to",

Empathy is the ability to identify with and understand somebody else's feelings or difficulties.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-07-2014, 03:06 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
(24-07-2014 02:23 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(24-07-2014 01:47 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Some people use their brains, some use their emotions....

Well that's rather a false dichotomy...
I did indicate that the list wasn't exhaustive by including the "..."
Of course some people can utilise both their brain and their emotion and come to some compromise, and of course someone can have something else as their driving force e.g. belief, chance etc.
My main point was that people don't only use their emotions as their driver and that I don't accept a claim that "people should use their emotions to drive their behaviours"
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24-07-2014, 03:27 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
Empathy is built in by Evolution. Rats (among other animals) have been shown to have empathy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-07-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
You people just keep reapting the same crap!

"Empathy is built in by Evolution", Yes! I understand that we have evolved a sense of empathy..!!!




But what I am talking about is morality!
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24-07-2014, 04:01 PM
RE: Naturalism = Nihilism?
So what is your point - because you lost me a while ago...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



My youtube musings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFoxbz...UVi1pf4B5g
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