Nature vs Nurture
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07-06-2013, 09:42 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 09:35 AM)I and I Wrote:  So you agree with me that genetics doesn't determine sexual orientation. What you are saying is that it's hormones. Then I ask the same question for hormones....how do you make a hormone....no wait...how do you determine ones sexual orientation from measuring hormone levels?

Here... read this: http://scitechdaily.com/homosexuality-mi...c-changes/

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07-06-2013, 09:55 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 09:42 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 09:35 AM)I and I Wrote:  So you agree with me that genetics doesn't determine sexual orientation. What you are saying is that it's hormones. Then I ask the same question for hormones....how do you make a hormone....no wait...how do you determine ones sexual orientation from measuring hormone levels?

Here... read this: http://scitechdaily.com/homosexuality-mi...c-changes/

So according to you, can a person be homosexual without ever having sex or desiring sex with a person from the same sex?
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07-06-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 09:55 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 09:42 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  Here... read this: http://scitechdaily.com/homosexuality-mi...c-changes/

So according to you, can a person be homosexual without ever having sex or desiring sex with a person from the same sex?

Ask earmuffs if a person can be homosexual without having sex. If you want to know if a person can be homosexual and never know it, I guess you'll have to consult a mystic.

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07-06-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 09:35 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(06-06-2013 07:55 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  The scientific method.

But I think you're under the impression (still) that I've argued that homosexuality is genetic. I haven't. Both Chas and I have mentioned that it is most likely the result of a hormonal phenomena that happens in the womb. That's not genetic.

So you agree with me that genetics doesn't determine sexual orientation. What you are saying is that it's hormones. Then I ask the same question for hormones....how do you make a hormone....no wait...how do you determine ones sexual orientation from measuring hormone levels?

It's still DNA-based. The DNA directs the fetal development. It is differential levels of chemicals in utero that steer development. The levels are local and different in different areas of the fetus.

It is possible that it is entirely determined by the DNA, though it is more likely that something in the uterine environment affects the process.

One thing is clear; it is developmental, it is neither learned nor chosen.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-06-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 10:01 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 09:55 AM)I and I Wrote:  So according to you, can a person be homosexual without ever having sex or desiring sex with a person from the same sex?

Ask earmuffs if a person can be homosexual without having sex. If you want to know if a person can be homosexual and never know it, I guess you'll have to consult a mystic.

So being a homosexual requires no behavior at all to define homosexuality? What is the evidence that homosexuality can be determined without examining behavior?
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07-06-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 10:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 09:35 AM)I and I Wrote:  So you agree with me that genetics doesn't determine sexual orientation. What you are saying is that it's hormones. Then I ask the same question for hormones....how do you make a hormone....no wait...how do you determine ones sexual orientation from measuring hormone levels?

It's still DNA-based. The DNA directs the fetal development. It is differential levels of chemicals in utero that steer development. The levels are local and different in different areas of the fetus.

It is possible that it is entirely determined by the DNA, though it is more likely that something in the uterine environment affects the process.

One thing is clear; it is developmental, it is neither learned nor chosen.

So now you are back to DNA as being the cause of a behavior? "something in the uterine environment" like what? A fetus will never know how to desire or what desire is for quite some time, how in the fuck can one say a fetus is gay or not gay?
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07-06-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 10:10 AM)I and I Wrote:  So being a homosexual requires no behavior at all to define homosexuality?

If you're an asexual heterosexual and you never tell anyone you're heterosexual, does that mean you aren't heterosexual?


Quote:What is the evidence that homosexuality can be determined without examining behavior?

Determined by whom?

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07-06-2013, 10:22 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 10:10 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 10:01 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  Ask earmuffs if a person can be homosexual without having sex. If you want to know if a person can be homosexual and never know it, I guess you'll have to consult a mystic.

So being a homosexual requires no behavior at all to define homosexuality? What is the evidence that homosexuality can be determined without examining behavior?

By asking that person.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-06-2013, 10:25 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 10:16 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 10:10 AM)I and I Wrote:  So being a homosexual requires no behavior at all to define homosexuality?

If you're an asexual heterosexual and you never tell anyone you're heterosexual, does that mean you aren't heterosexual?


Quote:What is the evidence that homosexuality can be determined without examining behavior?

Determined by whom?

What is an asexual heterosexual?

You are stating that homosexuality can be determined regardless of ones behavior or desires. I am asking how would one go about proving this.
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07-06-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Nature vs Nurture
(07-06-2013 10:25 AM)I and I Wrote:  What is an asexual heterosexual?

A heterosexual who feels no interest in engaging in sex. Asexual doesn't mean a person doesn't prefer one gender over another, it means they choose not to participate in sex. There are both hetero and homosexual couples who are also asexual.

Quote:You are stating that homosexuality can be determined regardless of ones behavior or desires. I am asking how would one go about proving this.

You're confusing the context of determine. I don't mean that we can determine it, I mean it is determined during development through a combination of nature and environmental influence... just like everything else about human personalities/traits is determined.

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