Near Death Experiences
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09-04-2013, 08:29 AM
Near Death Experiences
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/health/bel...?hpt=hp_t2

Another article on NDEs; not much new here but always an interesting subject. Part of the study is geared around improving care for comatose patients. He believes consciousness and the brain are not separate.

...it would rather be a man... [who] plunges into scientific questions with which he has no real acquaintance, only to obscure them with aimless rhetoric, and distract the attention of his hearers from the real point at issue by eloquent digressions and skilled appeals to religious prejudice.
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09-04-2013, 09:14 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
What I have trouble integrating into all I have read about this is what happened consistently with my aunt.

I had an aunt who had early onset Alzheimers. By the time she was 40 she was institutionalized, and practically comatose.

We would go visit her and she was in bed, with no recognition, no eye movement, no sign whatsoever that she knew we were even there. She was being intravenously fed and could do absolutely nothing, no movement except blinking, no speech, nothing.

But every time we said good bye, tears would roll down her cheeks. They kept the poor woman alive like that for 35 years and there was no one with authority to pull the plug.

Why would she tear up every time people left, when she supposedly was brain dead and unaware anyone was there? Why didn't she produce any tears except at those times? Did she actually hear everything that was said, and did she have fleeting periods of lucidity as she had before her body went limp?

It was very disturbing to say the least, and I still feel so badly that she was kept this way for so long.

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09-04-2013, 10:42 AM
 
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 09:14 AM)Dom Wrote:  What I have trouble integrating into all I have read about this is what happened consistently with my aunt.

I had an aunt who had early onset Alzheimers. By the time she was 40 she was institutionalized, and practically comatose.

We would go visit her and she was in bed, with no recognition, no eye movement, no sign whatsoever that she knew we were even there. She was being intravenously fed and could do absolutely nothing, no movement except blinking, no speech, nothing.

But every time we said good bye, tears would roll down her cheeks. They kept the poor woman alive like that for 35 years and there was no one with authority to pull the plug.

Why would she tear up every time people left, when she supposedly was brain dead and unaware anyone was there? Why didn't she produce any tears except at those times? Did she actually hear everything that was said, and did she have fleeting periods of lucidity as she had before her body went limp?

It was very disturbing to say the least, and I still feel so badly that she was kept this way for so long.

What you describe about your aunt is not brain death at all; it's not even near-death. If she could blink and breath spontaneously, she is not the example to use here.

Having said that, it's really too bad nothing could be done to let her pass on earlier. My wife and I both have living will that specifically state no artificial feeding or ventilator support.

Of course, living wills are great to let people know what you want. That doesn't mean anyone has to follow them once you're in that state.
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09-04-2013, 10:46 AM
 
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 08:29 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/health/bel...?hpt=hp_t2

Another article on NDEs; not much new here but always an interesting subject. Part of the study is geared around improving care for comatose patients. He believes consciousness and the brain are not separate.

I find NDEs fascinating mostly because the experiences are similar accross time and cultures--not exactly the same, but similar. For me they represent more evidence of consciousness as non-emergent. Of course, the individual is not actually dead, but the experience seems to grow the more like dead they become--which doesn't make any sense from a natural standpoint
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09-04-2013, 10:51 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 10:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(09-04-2013 08:29 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/health/bel...?hpt=hp_t2

Another article on NDEs; not much new here but always an interesting subject. Part of the study is geared around improving care for comatose patients. He believes consciousness and the brain are not separate.

I find NDEs fascinating mostly because the experiences are similar accross time and cultures--not exactly the same, but similar. For me they represent more evidence of consciousness as non-emergent. Of course, the individual is not actually dead, but the experience seems to grow the more like dead they become--which doesn't make any sense from a natural standpoint

Wow. Somebody said something that you use as a platform. How surprising... Dodgy

The similarities actually point to a naturalistic cause.

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09-04-2013, 10:52 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 10:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(09-04-2013 08:29 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/health/bel...?hpt=hp_t2

Another article on NDEs; not much new here but always an interesting subject. Part of the study is geared around improving care for comatose patients. He believes consciousness and the brain are not separate.

I find NDEs fascinating mostly because the experiences are similar accross time and cultures--not exactly the same, but similar. For me they represent more evidence of consciousness as non-emergent. Of course, the individual is not actually dead, but the experience seems to grow the more like dead they become--which doesn't make any sense from a natural standpoint

It makes complete sense from a natural standpoint. We all share the same kind of brain structure and chemistry.

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09-04-2013, 11:00 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
I'd like to think of an existence after death. I've seen several people who claimed a NDE, and find them interesting. But then, another part of me doesn't know how it would even be possible because all we know is a product of the brain and it's seemingly odd behavior. For example, . . . dreaming. My brain makes up all sorts of things each night. Things I hadn't seen on TV or in the real world, . . . . yet my brain makes up stories. As far as I know, . . . science hasn't uncovered exactly how it happens.

When we talk about the effects of that brain on NDEs, one COULD state that it was must the product of a dying brain. Probably is. But then, why don't these NDEs have people stating that they saw a hamburger joint filled with waltzing bears. . . driving a car on a dark night, or something different than "seeing loved ones"? I don't know.
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09-04-2013, 11:20 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 11:00 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  When we talk about the effects of that brain on NDEs, one COULD state that it was must the product of a dying brain. Probably is. But then, why don't these NDEs have people stating that they saw a hamburger joint filled with waltzing bears. . . driving a car on a dark night, or something different than "seeing loved ones"? I don't know.

First of all, most people do not have NDEs. Second of all, of those who do, the "tunnel of light" is more prevalent that "seeing loved ones." It should be obvious that there is a deeper emotional connection to family than fast food... I mean, even for this psychopath... and lastly! Wishes and desires do not provide the foundation for objective reality. So there! Tongue

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09-04-2013, 11:26 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
NDE's are fascinating to me. They are real experiences that are not fully explainable by mainstream science and in that sense yes they are paranormal. This does not mean that they will not one day be fully explained by the findings of normal science.

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09-04-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 11:20 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  First of all, most people do not have NDEs. Second of all, of those who do, the "tunnel of light" is more prevalent that "seeing loved ones." It should be obvious that there is a deeper emotional connection to family than fast food... I mean, even for this psychopath... and lastly! Wishes and desires do not provide the foundation for objective reality. So there! Tongue

Agreed. . . . . but I was looking at it from the aspect of dreaming. Yes, the tunnel of light is explainable, but considering the nature of the dream cycle and its randomness, I would think that such stories [about a NDE] would be more random. Many people, claiming NDE, didn't expect to be in that state in order to be thinking of loved ones. Now, it could be that many are elaborating on what they THOUGHT they should have seen. Again, I don't know those answers, but it is an interesting topic.
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