Near Death Experiences
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09-04-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 11:00 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  But then, why don't these NDEs have people stating that they saw a hamburger joint filled with waltzing bears. . . driving a car on a dark night, or something different than "seeing loved ones"? I don't know.

Because people tend to know they are dying, and hamburgers have zero to do with dying, so the brain is unlikely to dig that up, lol.

It is , however, totally logical for the brain to bring up people who died before you. The brain is doing it's job, sifting through experiences, looking for solutions. The only people who would know about dying are the dead, hence they pop up. I see nothing strange about that at all. It makes perfect sense. No woo here.

PS. And in that vein, you have now read about near death experiences. What will your brain bring up when it is confronted with dying? You got it, it will look for stored info and voila, you are bringing up tunnels of light and floating above your bed.

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09-04-2013, 12:23 PM
 
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 11:00 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  I'd like to think of an existence after death. I've seen several people who claimed a NDE, and find them interesting. But then, another part of me doesn't know how it would even be possible because all we know is a product of the brain and it's seemingly odd behavior. For example, . . . dreaming. My brain makes up all sorts of things each night. Things I hadn't seen on TV or in the real world, . . . . yet my brain makes up stories. As far as I know, . . . science hasn't uncovered exactly how it happens.

No one understands dreams. No one understands consciousness. And certainly no one can explain how you see things in your dream you've never encountered in your life or how your "brain" becomes so creative all of the sudden. The dullest person still makes the most fantastic dreams.

The reason we don't understand how consciousness works is because we are working from an incorrect paradigm, a paradigm that says the brain generates consciousness. We have to assume such paradigm, however, or science as we know it falls apart. I mean, it's no more logical to say the brain generates consciousness than to say it receives consciousness, but if we go with the latter, then the whole universe becomes a mystery to us.

But geuss what? The whole universe is a mystery to us: dark matter, dark energy, quantum entanglement, the double-slit experiement with light, consciousness itself, NDEs, precognition, and paramecium that can be trained. The only thing we can do with all of that in order to maintain the status quo is to ignore it.

But we won't ignore it forever. We, as a generation of humankind, are coming to a point where we can't move forward if we don't change the paradigm: consciousness is not part of the material universe--the material universe is part of consciousness.
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09-04-2013, 12:27 PM
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 11:43 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  
(09-04-2013 11:20 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  First of all, most people do not have NDEs. Second of all, of those who do, the "tunnel of light" is more prevalent that "seeing loved ones." It should be obvious that there is a deeper emotional connection to family than fast food... I mean, even for this psychopath... and lastly! Wishes and desires do not provide the foundation for objective reality. So there! Tongue

Agreed. . . . . but I was looking at it from the aspect of dreaming. Yes, the tunnel of light is explainable, but considering the nature of the dream cycle and its randomness, I would think that such stories [about a NDE] would be more random. Many people, claiming NDE, didn't expect to be in that state in order to be thinking of loved ones. Now, it could be that many are elaborating on what they THOUGHT they should have seen. Again, I don't know those answers, but it is an interesting topic.

Because it is not random, as me and the Chas-tiser have illustrated. And my arrogance is fueled by having experienced one, and being satisfied with the naturalistic explanation. I hafta think that people's whose "lives were changed" by NDEs were dirtbags to start with. Big Grin

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09-04-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: Near Death Experiences
The challenge in all this, as they stated, is that there's no expert standing by to take brain readings on an NDE when someone gets hit by a car. It's interesting research regardless. I hope something new comes out of it.

All my NDEs end with a parachute opening over my head... it's no tunnel of light, but it's just as comforting Big Grin

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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09-04-2013, 05:12 PM
 
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 01:32 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  All my NDEs end with a parachute opening over my head... it's no tunnel of light, but it's just as comforting Big Grin

Big Grin
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09-04-2013, 07:33 PM
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 11:00 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  I'd like to think of an existence after death. I've seen several people who claimed a NDE, and find them interesting. But then, another part of me doesn't know how it would even be possible because all we know is a product of the brain and it's seemingly odd behavior. For example, . . . dreaming. My brain makes up all sorts of things each night. Things I hadn't seen on TV or in the real world, . . . . yet my brain makes up stories. As far as I know, . . . science hasn't uncovered exactly how it happens.

When we talk about the effects of that brain on NDEs, one COULD state that it was must the product of a dying brain. Probably is. But then, why don't these NDEs have people stating that they saw a hamburger joint filled with waltzing bears. . . driving a car on a dark night, or something different than "seeing loved ones"? I don't know.

Our alleged highly impressive knowledge post Big Bang indicating our totality may be so, along with evolved brains, deeds extrordinaire, all reflecting our materialistic genesis. If and only if I did evolve thus, I cannot make claims else wise.

Of course if everything isn't all together what it seems..............who knows?Consider
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09-04-2013, 08:12 PM
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 11:26 AM)Misenhelter Wrote:  NDE's are fascinating to me. They are real experiences that are not fully explainable by mainstream science and in that sense yes they are paranormal. This does not mean that they will not one day be fully explained by the findings of normal science.

No. Not fully explained by science does not mean IN ANY SENSE that they are paranormal.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-04-2013, 11:42 PM
 
RE: Near Death Experiences
(09-04-2013 08:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  No. Not fully explained by science does not mean IN ANY SENSE that they are paranormal.


No, but it might be. Sure seems like it. Yes
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10-04-2013, 07:10 AM
RE: Near Death Experiences
I don't want to go as far as "it's paranormal" either, . . . . but for me, it does bring up questions. Again, to stipulate, . . . many people who end up having a NDE weren't expecting to be there to begin with. Some had lost activity during a surgery, . . . unknown to them at the time. Some due to some accident or something sudden. Now, it COULD be that people recall something absurd [like many dreams] and therefore never "report them" AS a NDE, . . . and only those who have a "heaven or hell" type of memory do, because it feeds the notion of those religious doctrines. I don't know the answer to all this, but I find it interesting. Again, I understand the "tunnel of light" as being the brain loosing oxygen. Seeing something beyond that? Consider
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