Need a few pointers regarding evolution.

[ghostexorcist]

(01-11-2011 06:02 PM)Alaskan Atheist Wrote:  He says that Pangaea can explain why there's so many different species in different parts of the planet; also can explain why the Galapagos Islands have those isolated species that Darwin worked with.

The islands have a lot of birds and aquatic lizards and mammals. It's obvious how these species could have arrived. As for the more land based mammals, they could have easily arrived on natural rafts of tree trunks or chunks of earth (from hurricanes or whatever). Since it is a chain of islands, these species could have then leap frogged to different individual islands.

A big thing to point out to your friend is that the Galapagos Islands were formed from volcanic activity, so the land was not apart of the original Pangaea.

[houseofcantor]

(02-11-2011 05:04 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Evolution by natural selection is likely the most proven theory in existence.

I'm thinking it is second after QM - and QM may be "wrong" without Pure Number.

Just gotta throw out that Atheist in me once in a while.

But yeah, they don't take odds in Vegas on Creationism.

[Mr Woof]

(02-11-2011 06:57 PM)free2011 Wrote:  Richard Dawkins latest book called "The Magic of Reality" does an outstanding job of explaining evolution in simple language with easily understood analogies. He also discusses the creation myths of many different religions. I'm sure your friend will agree all the myths are silly. Tell him that's how you feel about his story.

The problem with Dawkins; and he is a very modest man, is that he is not quite sure whether he indeed epitomises ultimate intelligence, on earth , if not indeed the whole cosmos. The jury is still out........

[houseofcantor]

(03-11-2011 12:55 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The problem with Dawkins; and he is a very modest man...

Hey, i'm eating potato chips over here... I'm sure my lawyer can spin that one up to attempted murder.

[Filox]

@ Alaskan Atheist

Must be some poor school, if this guy is the best you ever had. He does not sound so smart and intelligent, if he will not even discus "simple" things like fossils, DNA, evolution, Universe... He is just another Christian poor bastard, who has a narrow view and bases all his fact through Bible. You will not be able to convince him in anything, just let him go, he is already lost...

P.S.
To check if he can be saved or not, just ask him about Sarah Palin, if he says ANYTHING except that "she is stupid", then he is lost.

[Alaskan Atheist]

@ Filox - Our school is one of the best in the state. And he actually is pretty smart, I just don't think he's done enough research on evolution.

@ ghostexorcist - Perfect!! I'll definitely point that out to him tomorrow! That's a terrific point, and I wouldn't have even thought to look that up, hence why I posted this thread! Thanks a bunch!

[Eye Sage]

(01-11-2011 06:02 PM)Alaskan Atheist Wrote:  ...Pangaea can explain why there's so many different species in different parts of the planet; also can explain why the Galapagos Islands have those isolated species...

Why stop with these two paltry examples? The fact is Intelligent Design can not only explain everything we observe but everything we could possibly observe, and this is a fatal flaw. An intelligent designer could have designed the world any which way. Thus not only anything we observe, but anything that we could possibly observe can be said to be explained by Intelligent Design except...

Unintelligent Design...

There is one prediction that Intelligent Design proponents can point to as offering hope there might be some evidence they have anything at all to say, and that is that beings created by an intelligent designer will be designed intelligently. The problem is, they are not. Mammalian eyes, including ours, are inside out so that light has to pass through nerves and blood vessels to reach the light sensing surface. And speaking of eyes there are many species such as the cave dwelling tetra fish that are completely blind because they live in lightless environments, but which retain useless vestigial eyes. And speaking of vestigial organs they are all over the place. Whales have tiny vestigial leg bones and some snakes have a shrunken vestigial pelvis. The human appendix is a vestigial cecum which in other primates aids in the digestion of cellulose but which is more dangerous to us than it is useful. Wisdom teeth are the remnants of third molars which were useful to our foliage munching ancestors but which are useless to us and can cause problems for many if not surgically removed. The tailbone is literally that - a vestigial tail. Human embryos have tails which in certain very rare cases may still be present at birth. (If your friend or any other Creationist Intelligent Design Proponent ridicules you for thinking you have money ancestors remind him it's a fact he once had a tail.)

I must add, your friend will in all likelihood not buy any of this. You won't get a "Yeah, I guess you're right. Now I'm an Evolutionist." You may however force him to start heaping more justifications and unlikely scenarios onto his theory to keep it afloat. If he has to drag out the suggestion that God The Intelligent Designer intentionally made us flawed to punish us for our sins something we did wrong, you made him squirm and that's a win for the side of reason. (And don't forget to ask what all the other poor dumb critters did wrong to deserve their non-functional or counter-productive body parts?) Eventually he may even drop the facade of having any scientific viewpoint in order to retreat back to the safety of a Lord who works in mysterious ways. The "Intelligent Design" camp may be fond of pointing out evolution is "only a theory". It's time for more of us to start pointing out that Creationism (let's call a spade a spade here) isn't even a theory.

And if your friend shows no signs of changing his beliefs, don't despair. It may seem like you don't end accomplishing anything, but you may end up sowing seeds of doubt that, even if it takes years or decades, could one day take root. I'm sure there are many here who were right where your friend is when they were his age.

-Joe

[houseofcantor]

(04-11-2011 11:13 PM)Eye Sage Wrote:  Thus not only anything we observe, but anything that we could possibly observe can be said to be explained by Intelligent Design except...

Unintelligent Design...

Swing! Crack! It's... outta here!

That's just awesome. Stupid brain is stuck on "positive atheism" this day - there's another example. What does "atheist" mean? The only god you hafta impress is yourself - and nobody's impressed when you're wrong.

Got me laughing so much, I remembered stuff!



Fuck speciation over time. Howza bout speciation by location.

(That Aron Ra cat "blue collar atheist")

[Ms Rukia]

I recently had a similar encounter. It's best to just encourage them to broaden their world view. Ask questions and start thinking.

[Alaskan Atheist]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Yesterday I pointed out some obvious flaws in his argument, such as "You do know that the Galapagos are volcanically formed and wasn't there during Pangaea?" He immediately responded with some apologist horse manure: "Oh, that was just an example I was using. I was talking about the other islands." - Uhhh, then say that in your original argument you little...

Anyway, I'll read up on evolution more and formulate an argument, and just give it to him straight, and if he listens and says "Huh... maybe you're right" then mission accomplished - if not, screw him.