Need a little help...
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24-10-2011, 05:50 PM
Need a little help...
Having a debate with a fundy. He claims that the bible doesn't say atheists will go to hell. Of course this is obvious bullshit, but can anyone quote me some chapter and verse to throw in this guys face? For some reason I can't find it (maybe he's right and we're all going to heaven after all! LOL)

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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24-10-2011, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2011 06:49 PM by MasterRottweiler.)
RE: Need a little help...
Well, as far as I can remember, the only criteria to go to hell is not believing in the god of the bible, and not accepting Cheezus as lord and saviour, the actions of men are irrelevant to god as said in Isaiah 64:6; "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Also this is further confirmed in Romans 3:20; "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Also according to Romans 5:1, faith alone is the only way to be saved; "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Also, Romans 3:28 says; "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

Thats all the verses I remember for now regarding the salvation by faith, and even if no atheists are mentioned, the only thing that make you deserve hell, is not believing, so it is reasonably safe to conclude that we as atheists deserve hell by not believing.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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24-10-2011, 06:48 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2011 06:52 PM by Hughsie.)
RE: Need a little help...
I can't remember the chapter and verse but I know that it says something along the lines that there can be no forgiveness for someone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, I suppose by refuting it's existence you could say we blaspheme against it. I'll try and find the verse.
Here we go. This outlines Eternal Sin.

Mark 3:28-30: “Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’.”

Matthew 12:30-32: “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

Luke 12:8-10: “I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.”

This any use?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-10-2011, 06:53 PM
RE: Need a little help...
(24-10-2011 06:48 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I can't remember the chapter and verse but I know that it says something along the lines that there can be no forgiveness for someone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, I suppose by refuting it's existence you could say we blaspheme against it. I'll try and find the verse.

Ohh, the verses I remember regarding Blasphemy are these:

Mathew 12:31; "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

Mark 3:29; "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."

Luke 12:10; "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."

Well, being a christian for 8 years before turning into an atheist is useful after all Big Grin

Peace.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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24-10-2011, 07:04 PM
RE: Need a little help...
Thanks Rottie!

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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24-10-2011, 07:07 PM
RE: Need a little help...
No problem Stark!

Ohh and by the way...

_
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Post 300!!!

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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24-10-2011, 07:07 PM
RE: Need a little help...
Problem is, this moron is arguing that atheists can't blaspheme because you can't blaspheme something you don't believe exists.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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24-10-2011, 07:08 PM
RE: Need a little help...
Thanks to you too Hughsie

Man this guy just makes shit up to suit his needs. Sounds strangely familiar. lol

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24-10-2011, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2011 07:16 PM by Hughsie.)
RE: Need a little help...
(24-10-2011 07:07 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Problem is, this moron is arguing that atheists can't blaspheme because you can't blaspheme something you don't believe exists.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that this guy is the sort of fundie who will do whatever mental gymnastics it takes to defend his point. It's probably a waste of time even trying.
Quote:Catholics commonly give a list of six specific sorts of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, to wit, with St. Thomas;

resistance to the known truth,

Any Christian would surely see the existence of God as a 'known truth'. Hence to reject the existence of God would still count as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, even for a non-believer. Therefore by simply being an Atheist then you are indirectly blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, guaranteeing yourself a ticket to Hell.

The only way he can get out of this is to deny that the existence of God is a 'known truth', if he is a fundie I can hardly see him doing that.

I'm sure he will find some way to claim the logic flawed though. Fundies are better than lawyers at picking a view and refusing to budge however much you destroy their point.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-10-2011, 07:54 PM
RE: Need a little help...
From the opening pages of my Gideon Bible, which I . . . um . . . liberated from a hotel room years ago:

Quote:WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT . . .

HELL

II Thessalonians 1:8,9 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."

Hope that helps.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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