Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
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23-02-2012, 07:52 PM
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
(23-02-2012 05:47 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... Well...

Let's not ignore the fact that many of the Arminians and pastors that Kings don't get on with have themselves studied scripture. I'd say it's partly because your beliefs are indeed wacky when viewed from any perspective except your own (the same probably applies to me, but I have more people to conform with Wink ). Yes indeed, their beliefs are *also* wacky but they have the advantage of being the majority view, which makes them sane and you crazy. Case closed Smile

It does go to show that the whole thing is whacky shit. You think you're right. They think they're right.
Correct answer? You're all a bunch of silly deluded theistic nitwits.

I mean that in love of course. Big Grin

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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23-02-2012, 08:06 PM
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
(23-02-2012 03:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  As many of you know, I have faced some acidity from fellow Christians because of my theology. I really don't understand why this is, but I'm trying to view it from a different point of view without prejudice. I still don't see why, so I need a 3rd party perspective on the situation. So my questions:

*All of these are directed towards traditional Arminian/YEC/Dispensationalist Christians*

1) Why is my theology so threatening?
2) Why does my theology incite such vitriol?
3) Why do you ignore scripture that is contrary to what you believe?
4) Why are you right, and I'm wrong?
5) Why do you refuse to educate yourself on other theological doctrines?

1. Your god is not perfect. He's unfair, he is evil (the source of evil cannot be perfectly good), he (as I pointed) is a poor planner and his decision to make self-aware souls only to use them and discard them for the benefit of a tiny fraction of humanity is horribly repulsive. It doesn't even matter if I am part of the chosen group or not. That shit is just horrible.

It makes way more sense that god is a victim of free will. He gave us free will because it was the right thing to do, but he knew that our choices would have very bad consequences and he's suffering from them just like a father suffers when he sees his children wrecking their lives with bad choices. Still, free will was necessary because it's a sine-qua-non requirement for a real relationship. Without free will you are nothing but a puppeteer. Whenever I'm coding some program on my computer, I am the god of my computer. I can make my computer tell me that it loves me. I can make it worship me until its components fry out. It's really me loving myself and worshiping myself because the computer has no choice. I don't have a relationship with my computer. It's like leaving notes on the fridge for myself. I don't read them later and say, OH, so nice, I have been thinking about myself today. I know exactly what they say because I wrote them. It's not the same thing as reading notes from my wife. Your god is repulsive and ego-maniacal to the extreme. You're not perfect if you're that much into yourself. As a general rule I don't worship gods that are dumber and more flawed than I am.

2. You're spreading a false message. You're putting yourself in danger and you're exposing innocent people to the risk of having a wrong faith. Of course, my faith is the true one and yours is so far away that you're definitely an enemy. You're not worthy to call yourself a Christian. I am. You'll burn in hell anyway for your highly selfish and ungodly beliefs. By spreading your poison you're endangering weaker souls. (I have to repeat myself: when you explain your theology, that tells me nothing about your god. He doesn't exist anyway. It does tell me a great deal about you though. Especially in modern times when gods are debatable I noticed that each person has a different version of god. Even people going to the same church. God is, of course, some mumbo jumbo they got taught but at a deeper level god is an idealized version of the person believing in it. If *that* is your idealized version of yourself, it really doesn't look good. I believe that, at least in the subconscious, Christians figured that one out too. They feel free to find you as a person just as repulsive as your god. Hence the vitriol.

3. YOU misinterpret the scriptures. I don't ignore the verses that contradict what I believe. I honestly think that god had a good reason to say and do them at the time. But flaws are the ones with the great variety. There is only ONE perfection and your god is not it. As long as god is perfect in every way, his level of wisdom has, no doubt, some explanation for those things that do not make sense to my limited mind.

4. Covered that so far I believe.

5. I am educated in other doctrines. I just don't waste too much time with them, just like I don't waste time studying all the Santa Claus myths. I know the general story, I don't believe it, I move on to stuff I actually do believe. I can certainly appreciate the fact that some of the primordial revelation can be found in other religions (that's the excuse I had for the fact that since older religions have similar myths, we couldn't have possibly copied them. No. They all started with OUR religion and then they just lost the message along the way and only have traces of The Truth). As I was saying, I appreciate noticing the primordial revelation, but why waste time with that when I have the real truth right here?

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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23-02-2012, 10:24 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2012 09:20 AM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
King you're forgetting a very important point here. their religion is different than yours otherwise you wouldn't be having these problems. When you were told to think about it that way DLJ was suggesting exactly the right thing. You may think it's the same but they sure don't see it that way.

That you have the same god does not make your religion magically synonymous. Or are you saying you're a Veridican?

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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23-02-2012, 10:26 PM
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
(23-02-2012 03:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  *All of these are directed towards traditional Arminian/YEC/Dispensationalist Christians*

Why did you leave out Catholics?

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23-02-2012, 10:55 PM
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
(23-02-2012 04:08 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  You have to remember KC, that you are in the minority among theists. Most are unwilling to consider different perspectives, even when those perspectives are from another Christian.

This is quite true. When I believed, I actually considered the question, "If I got into a debate with someone who didn't believe what I believe, would I be open to changing my mind?" I realized my answer was no: my faith was unshakable, and I would refuse to be swayed. If satan attacked me with lies, I would hold firm to what I knew was truth. I was right. Period.

(23-02-2012 04:53 PM)Denicio Wrote:  ALSO, and this cant be emphasized enough, they see them-self in you as a fellow beliver...so they truly and literally see you on a slippery slope of deconverting and they know THEY could be there too should they start that trek for knowledge. You have opted to pick from the tree of knowledge..and you know how well that ended for Adam, right?

^-- And frankly, this is why.

Turns out, that was a really unsettling answer for me because of how intellectually dishonest it is, and, well....look where I ended up. But the rest seem to either lie to themselves ("Of course I'm open to opposing beliefs! They're just wrong.") or aren't so disturbed by my answer as I was.
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23-02-2012, 11:03 PM
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
I’d just repeat what others have said, so I won’t.

I dunno what it’s like for you to go through this, but it can’t be easy.
I may not (don’t actually at all) agree on what you believe in but aside from that you come across as a really good honest bloke and any group should be happy to have you amongst its members.

I can only speak for myself but I would miss you if you left here, you have made me look at things from another prospective and made me hone my arguments.

Your absence will be noticed from your former church, but they lost more than you did even if it doesn’t feel like that at the moment.

Chin up, take the dogs/kids/wife out for a picnic this Sunday, say grace in a chilly snowy park and enjoy the time you have together.

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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24-02-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
(23-02-2012 10:26 PM)KVron Wrote:  
(23-02-2012 03:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  *All of these are directed towards traditional Arminian/YEC/Dispensationalist Christians*

Why did you leave out Catholics?

Because there are no Catholics in the Baptist church I go to.

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24-02-2012, 09:13 AM
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
(23-02-2012 10:24 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  King you're forgetting a very important point here. their religion is different than yours otherwise you wouldn't be having these problems. When you were told to think about it that way DLJ was suggesting exactly the right thing. You may think it's the same but they sure don't see it that way.

That you have the same god does not make your religion magivcall synonymous. Or are you saying you're a Veridican?

Lilith is speaking for the Lord, KC. He's telling you to move out of darkness and into the promised land of VeriDICKanism.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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24-02-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
(23-02-2012 03:46 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-02-2012 03:39 PM)Egor Wrote:  Having said all that, it is good to see you at least mention your beliefs in an atheist forum instead of laughing and drinking beers with them all night.

You're right, you know. This is the first time I've ever mentioned anything about my theological beliefs on this site.

LOL!

Okay, I'm not a neutral source, and I'm not unbiased... but because I have been in YEC shoes, I think I can give some honest YEC answers.

1) Why is my theology so threatening? It's threatening because you're spreading misinformation. You've pandered to the evolutionists by giving in to their theology. As the bible says "I'll spew the lukewarm out of my mouth". I think he was referring to fence-sitters like yourself, who only take what you want to take from the bible and ignore the rest.

2) Why does my theology incite such vitriol? Not everyone that calls himself or herself a Christian really is, and there are some really awful and cruel people pretending to be Christian. If you're following God, you'd turn the other cheek, not "incite such vitriol".

*I'm so glad I'm not this holier-than-thou dipshit anymore*

3) Why do you ignore scripture that is contrary to what you believe? This sounds like projection. You're the one that ignores Genesis. I believe the bible in its entirety, literally.

4) Why are you right, and I'm wrong? Because to ignore parts of the bible is to be someone who isn't really following the bible. If you're going to accept the bible, you have to accept it all.

*I'm really, really glad this isn't me anymore*

5) Why do you refuse to educate yourself on other theological doctrines? If they're wrong, why bother? It might be nice to know about Greek mythology, but it's not going to teach me anything about morality or what God wants, is it?

*I hope this was helpful, because it wasn't as fun as I thought it would be*

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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24-02-2012, 02:50 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2012 02:53 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Need a question answered from a neutral perspective.
Why is it always Lilith who speaks for the lord is my voice hypnotisingly alluring or something?

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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