Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
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29-01-2018, 04:47 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
(29-01-2018 04:33 PM)brunumb Wrote:  
(29-01-2018 04:14 PM)Belaqua Wrote:  The existence of really bad stuff shows that there can't be a God.

That statement in your post grabbed my attention. Why is it that if any god exists the default position is that this god must be benevolent?

You'd have to ask the people who believe that.
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29-01-2018, 04:50 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
I am atheist and I do believe that "good" and "evil" exist. Not as nouns but as descriptive adjectives. As in, there are some very evil people in this world. There are also some very good people. One can also commit evil acts and do good things. That has nothing to do with a god or a satan, just a sense of what is morally right and what is heinously morally wrong.

Hmmm. (Here is an interesting side note----I see that spellcheck had no problem with me not capitalizing "god" but did underline "satan" as being wrong.)

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29-01-2018, 05:08 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
(29-01-2018 04:50 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  just a sense

I guess the question here is whether that "sense" is a valid standard for making judgments.
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29-01-2018, 05:29 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
(29-01-2018 04:50 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  I am atheist and I do believe that "good" and "evil" exist. Not as nouns but as descriptive adjectives. As in, there are some very evil people in this world. There are also some very good people. One can also commit evil acts and do good things. That has nothing to do with a god or a satan, just a sense of what is morally right and what is heinously morally wrong.

Hmmm. (Here is an interesting side note----I see that spellcheck had no problem with me not capitalizing "god" but did underline "satan" as being wrong.)

I get that the words have entered into the secular English lexicon, but at the core meaning, they really do not exist.

D + evil = Devil
Good - o = God.

There's the origin.

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29-01-2018, 06:43 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
(29-01-2018 04:47 PM)Belaqua Wrote:  
(29-01-2018 04:33 PM)brunumb Wrote:  That statement in your post grabbed my attention. Why is it that if any god exists the default position is that this god must be benevolent?

You'd have to ask the people who believe that.

You don't have to believe it to have an opinion. That aside, it was meant as an out there question for anyone.

No gods necessary.
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29-01-2018, 07:01 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
(29-01-2018 06:43 PM)brunumb Wrote:  
(29-01-2018 04:47 PM)Belaqua Wrote:  You'd have to ask the people who believe that.

You don't have to believe it to have an opinion. That aside, it was meant as an out there question for anyone.

The standard definition of God, since the time of Plato, is that God is the Good. So for that tradition, your question is kind of like asking, "What if the Good wasn't good?"

Christians who follow Augustine, and many others, follow this tradition. In this view, God is completely non-tyrannical and the practice of "obeying" him is just doing what is best for oneself and for the world.

Of course there is another way of thinking, in which God is seen as a human-like tyrant who makes demands of us. This is what William Blake called "Nobodaddy."
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29-01-2018, 07:09 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
(29-01-2018 04:50 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  I am atheist and I do believe that "good" and "evil" exist. Not as nouns but as descriptive adjectives. As in, there are some very evil people in this world. There are also some very good people. One can also commit evil acts and do good things. That has nothing to do with a god or a satan, just a sense of what is morally right and what is heinously morally wrong.

Hmmm. (Here is an interesting side note----I see that spellcheck had no problem with me not capitalizing "god" but did underline "satan" as being wrong.)

You didn't capitalize "Satan."

Yeah totally agree. I remember when I made my move from agnostic to complete atheist that (for whatever reason) was a big revelation for me. "Evil" isn't a thing or a personality or something delivered to us from the supernatural world...it's an adjective. Bad two-point-oh.

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29-01-2018, 08:36 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
(29-01-2018 07:01 PM)Belaqua Wrote:  The standard definition of God, since the time of Plato, is that God is the Good.

Oh! Facepalm The standard definition of God.

So, why should God be good by the standard definition in the first place? That presupposes a particular god with specific characteristics that have been arbitrarily chosen. That's the whole problem with God. Everyone has their own definition. My question remains. If there is a god, why must it be good?

No gods necessary.
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29-01-2018, 08:45 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
(29-01-2018 08:36 PM)brunumb Wrote:  arbitrarily chosen

If it's the conclusion of a long elaborate argument, it's not arbitrarily chosen.
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29-01-2018, 09:18 PM
RE: Need help with these questions from a Church of Christer
What is exactly is the standard definition of God?

No gods necessary.
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