Need some help
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12-09-2013, 08:17 AM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2013 08:21 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Need some help
(12-09-2013 06:52 AM)bustead Wrote:  A simple claim by theists: God is all-powerful and perfectly good.

This is two claims:
1. God is all powerful.
2. God is perfectly good.

I suggest you stick with just one claim. It is much easier to make one good argument, then it is to make two good arguments. It is also easier for your audience to understand and digest one good argument then two.

I am a theist, but if I were to argue against the claim that God is all powerful to Christians, I would present the following argument:

Premise 1. An all powerful being can create anything that is logically possible.
Premise 2. If an all powerful being cannot create something, then that something is not logically possible.
Premise 3. An all powerful being cannot create another all powerful being.
Conclusion: therefore all powerful beings are not logically possible.

Then I would present the following thought experiment. Suppose one day God decided to create another all powerful being called "Zod". God then says to Zod, "I will use my omnipotent power to move this pebble". And Zod then replies , "I will use my omnipotent powers to keep that pebble still". Now either God moves the pebble or Zod keeps it still. There must be a winner to this contest. If God loses then God is not all powerful because He failed to move the pebble. If Zod looses, then Zod is not all powerful and God failed to create an all powerful being. If Zod is not all powerful then God cannot create an all powerful being. If God cannot create an all powerful being then all powerful beings are not logically possible.

This argument has a fatal flaw....let see if you can find it.
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12-09-2013, 08:23 AM
 
RE: Need some help
(12-09-2013 06:45 AM)bustead Wrote:  I am their enemy for a long long time (main reason for my "F" in religious studies). Besides I am challenging a few teachers' claims only (They are not teaching my core subjects.

See, that's not good. I remember (like it was a long ago) that in my secular high school we had a choice between religious education and secular ethics. Most of us chose the former, because it meant one less subject to study - it was an easy A, a prayer here and there, a one-page essay about faith and that's that. I don't remember that anyone got less than A... people would roll on the floor laughing at someone who would get a B in religious education. A popular joke was, "I don't have time to hang out, you know, I've gotta study RelEd." Laughat

Anyway, as I said, there's no point in making enemies as you can only worsen your grades. Be a troll - a subtle one. Invent some bullshit story about repentance, and sell it to your teachers. You know how it goes, "I did wrong, I feel sorry, I was entrapped by the 'evil' atheists" (or the devil, if they're 'religious' enough) and watch the effects. Make a show out of it. And the result? Profit. Thumbsup

Of course, if you want to stick with your initial plan, then use one of the videos posted by other members. But that wouldn't be nearly as fun. Wink
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12-09-2013, 03:35 PM
RE: Need some help
(12-09-2013 06:52 AM)bustead Wrote:  
(12-09-2013 05:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You don't challenge teachers at school. You challenge claims made by teachers at school.

What claim are you challenging?

A simple claim by theists: God is all-powerful and perfectly good.
And i am a well known (and only that i know) atheist at school. I am not afraidof being targeted.
As a Christian I don't think you can feasibly challenge that God is all powerful and perfectly good. You can try.
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12-09-2013, 05:21 PM
RE: Need some help
Hi Hafnof..
Very true, re the first one, bit aren't some hard line atheists just as badHuh
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12-09-2013, 05:28 PM
 
RE: Need some help
(12-09-2013 03:35 PM)childeye Wrote:  As a Christian I don't think you can feasibly challenge that God is all powerful and perfectly good. You can try.

Do you think Bustead is young/inexperienced enough to fall for that?
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12-09-2013, 09:05 PM
RE: Need some help
(12-09-2013 05:28 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(12-09-2013 03:35 PM)childeye Wrote:  As a Christian I don't think you can feasibly challenge that God is all powerful and perfectly good. You can try.

Do you think Bustead is young/inexperienced enough to fall for that?
Honestly, I don't get what you mean? I don't really know Bustead. The assertions of being all powerful and good seem preferable to alternatives such as all powerful and bad or less than all powerful but good.
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12-09-2013, 09:30 PM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2013 09:52 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Need some help
(12-09-2013 07:33 AM)DLJ Wrote:  


Show that,one. ^^^ ThumbsupBig GrinThumbsupBig Grin Thanks DLJ for that, I'm gonna keep it!
...



As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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13-09-2013, 02:53 AM
 
RE: Need some help
(12-09-2013 09:05 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-09-2013 05:28 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  Do you think Bustead is young/inexperienced enough to fall for that?
Honestly, I don't get what you mean? I don't really know Bustead. The assertions of being all powerful and good seem preferable to alternatives such as all powerful and bad or less than all powerful but good.

What I'm saying is, that the ideas of omnipotence and omnibenevolence have been refuted multiple times on this forum, and yet you're trying to convince Bustead that it's impossible to challenge those ideas.
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13-09-2013, 06:59 AM
RE: Need some help
(12-09-2013 09:05 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-09-2013 05:28 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  Do you think Bustead is young/inexperienced enough to fall for that?
Honestly, I don't get what you mean? I don't really know Bustead. The assertions of being all powerful and good seem preferable to alternatives such as all powerful and bad or less than all powerful but good.

It would be really helpful for you to watch the videos in this very post that show that your assertion is an unsupported claim, and that unsupported claims should not be respected without evidence. See page 1 of the thread.

Something that "seems" like its "preferable" to you may "seem" like its "retarded" to someone who is not you. How we distinguish the difference between our "seems?"

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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13-09-2013, 07:28 AM
RE: Need some help
(13-09-2013 06:59 AM)Skippy538 Wrote:  Something that "seems" like its "preferable" to you may "seem" like its "retarded" to someone who is not you. How we distinguish the difference between our "seems?"


With evidence, the kryptonite of religion and faith.

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