Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
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15-05-2017, 05:11 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2017 05:27 AM by SomethingWitty2.)
Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
This is probably not a common question... Any advice how to get over the Seven Fold Path and all that avoiding suffering junk?

I caught the Zen Buddhism bug in High School and am personally trying to get rid of the narrative along with some other spiritual baggage. Did I look very deep into it? Not really, but it seemed to have flared up at the moment and I would rather want to care for things, rather than avoiding having passions.

Found this: "Jeong stated that this book was written with the objective of refuting Buddhism once and for all "lest it destroy morality and eventually humanity itself." The charges leveled against Buddhism in the Bulssi japbyeon constitute a full inventory of the various arguments made by Confucians and Neo-Confucians from the time of the introduction of Buddhism into East Asia during the 2nd century CE. These arguments are arranged in eighteen sections, each of which criticises a particular aspect of Buddhist doctrine or practice."
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15-05-2017, 05:27 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
Have a look for Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist by Stephen Batchelor. Should be available in your local library.
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15-05-2017, 05:40 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
Hi SW2.

I don't know much about Buddhism, but I have never really unloaded all the Christian baggage from my youth. I don't know if such a thing is possible.

There are valuable pieces of my self, my psyche that involve xian principles...or I should say, involve my xian upbringing with principles learned from my not-very-religious parents.

So...keep what helps and what you can reason is a truth with you, while gradually ejecting and/or ignoring the rest? That is a question because I haven't actually thought about what I did to come to the point where I am, which is a materialist atheist of determinist bent.

-Jeanne

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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15-05-2017, 06:11 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
Hey there, I'm sorry to hear of your struggles. I'm not sure what I can say to help, but I'll be happy to try if there's anything I can do.

What is it that is making you cling to it, rather than simply walking away and living your life as you see fit?

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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15-05-2017, 06:15 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 06:11 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Hey there, I'm sorry to hear of your struggles. I'm not sure what I can say to help, but I'll be happy to try if there's anything I can do.

What is it that is making you cling to it, rather than simply walking away and living your life as you see fit?

A lot of it makes sense. It is just not the life I want to live. As well, I have never lived my own life, or so I felt as a former Catholic. It's a little rough getting started but a necessary journey.
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15-05-2017, 06:17 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
Can't say I know much about what Buddhism entails but I don't see that wanting to avoid suffering, care for things, or be passionate are incompatible with being an atheist. Can you elaborate on what ideas you are trying to overcome?




Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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15-05-2017, 06:19 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
Do you mean it makes sense as in the supernatural stories or whatever are true? Or that the advice it gives as a philosophy seem useful?

With any philosophy, it's perfectly fine to extract any useful parts and discard the rest. It's only religion that tries to hook people into an all-or-nothing deal.

I understand that if it still has an emotional hold over you, this will take time to fade. And like you say, if you've been used to being told what to think, this is a new adventure for you. I hope we can help you through it Smile

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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15-05-2017, 06:35 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 06:17 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Can't say I know much about what Buddhism entails but I don't see that wanting to avoid suffering, care for things, or be passionate are incompatible with being an atheist. Can you elaborate on what ideas you are trying to overcome?




I find the want to remove suffering "our minds disdain for making sense of an shifting world", selfish and stupid. I think the religion secular or not, turns people into placated livestock. Chewing on the curds of paradoxes, thinking they are wise, weak temperament, and having a quiet insignificant smugness is just not appealing to me. That is why I am currently reading the Confucian criticism of it and looking if other people feel the same way.
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15-05-2017, 06:39 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 05:11 AM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  This is probably not a common question... Any advice how to get over the Seven Fold Path and all that avoiding suffering junk?

Since the central teaching of Buddhism is the Eight-Fold Path, and you have forgotten one of them, you seem well on your way. With time and lack of effort, I'm sure you can forget the others one at a time.

Drinking Beverage
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15-05-2017, 06:55 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
http://www.dailybuddhism.com/archives/670

Strange dilemma.

7 fold path? I keep seeing it called 8 fold.

The basic strategy spelled out for living life seems very reasonable. It's not like you would want to have the wrong thoughts, say the wrong things, and take the wrong course of action, and choose the wrong livelihood et cetera because then you would still be confined by the doctrine only to a much less desirable outcome. I don't think the argument that Buddhism is compatible with atheism is helpful because what you're saying is you don't want to be beholden to a pattern of behavior, especially one that's pre-scripted I figure. Taoism and Confucianism only offer new styles of confinement.

I recommend reading

No Longer Human - Osamu Dazai
Nausea - Sarte
Hunger - Knut Hamson

and whatever by Henry Miller, Harry Crews, Bukowski

Not because these books will offer any sort of alternative but because I think they're powerful enough to help wreck what you believe but not pretentious enough to offer a new course of action.
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