Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
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15-05-2017, 07:08 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 06:55 AM)ImFred Wrote:  http://www.dailybuddhism.com/archives/670

Strange dilemma.

7 fold path? I keep seeing it called 8 fold.

The basic strategy spelled out for living life seems very reasonable. It's not like you would want to have the wrong thoughts, say the wrong things, and take the wrong course of action, and choose the wrong livelihood et cetera because then you would still be confined by the doctrine only to a much less desirable outcome. I don't think the argument that Buddhism is compatible with atheism is helpful because what you're saying is you don't want to be beholden to a pattern of behavior, especially one that's pre-scripted I figure. Taoism and Confucianism only offer new styles of confinement.

I recommend reading

No Longer Human - Osamu Dazai
Nausea - Sarte
Hunger - Knut Hamson

and whatever by Henry Miller, Harry Crews, Bukowski

Not because these books will offer any sort of alternative but because I think they're powerful enough to help wreck what you believe but not pretentious enough to offer a new course of action.

Super thanks. Yes in my angry fit, I did say 7 fold when it is supposed to be 8 fold. Thanks again Smile
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15-05-2017, 07:24 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 06:35 AM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  I find the want to remove suffering "our minds disdain for making sense of an shifting world", selfish and stupid.

Well, that may be why I'm not understanding. I've never felt "disdain for making sense of a shifting world" and never thought about religion in quite those terms.

I would have said that many theists have disdain for admitting they do not understand things, and perhaps a disdain for putting in the effort to investigate and learn, but not that they oppose making sense of the world. They are just content with easy answers that appear to bridge the unknowns where I am not content with appearances.

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15-05-2017, 07:32 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
This may sound silly or obvious, but there's no need to refute it or argue against it to simply ignore it. You are your own person, and you can live your life however you want.

From my brief interaction with a Buddhist Monk(ess?) I found it to be a load of utter hogwash, and more than a little alarming. The useful parts were just common sense morality or relaxation techniques, but it was surrounded with silly stories and she was trying to tell us that the point of life is to meditate and to escape into yourself. It again sounded like a free alternative to hitting the bottle.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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15-05-2017, 07:38 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2017 07:45 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
Maybe by reminding yourself that Buddha was said to be able to walk on water, to walk through mountains, to make himself as big as a giant, to multiply himself, to travel through space, and to have super hearing.

Sounds a little made up, doesn't it? Tongue If I told you this and you knew nothing about Buddha and I said I want you to believe and follow this life's path...and Oh btw, here's the avatar (i.e. Buddha) you shall follow. He's got magical abilities just like out of a DC Comic. Would you believe me or think I was nuts?
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15-05-2017, 07:50 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
I'm not sure if Zen Buddhism is like "literal" but I've always thought that Buddhism was more of a "teaching" than a religion.

Stuff like meditation/solving one's own problems are very good things to work with. Unless I'm missing something here, it'd be crazy to take any of the more "magical" stories of the Buddha literally.

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15-05-2017, 08:13 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 06:39 AM)Rockblossom Wrote:  
(15-05-2017 05:11 AM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  This is probably not a common question... Any advice how to get over the Seven Fold Path and all that avoiding suffering junk?

Since the central teaching of Buddhism is the Eight-Fold Path, and you have forgotten one of them, you seem well on your way. With time and lack of effort, I'm sure you can forget the others one at a time.

Drinking Beverage

I would also add that Buddhism stems from Hinduism. And guess who had the Eight Fold Path first? Yup, the Hindus via the Eight Limbs of Yoga. And guess who was a Hindu before developing Buddhism? That would be Buddha.
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15-05-2017, 08:13 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 05:11 AM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  This is probably not a common question... Any advice how to get over the Seven Fold Path and all that avoiding suffering junk?

I caught the Zen Buddhism bug in High School and am personally trying to get rid of the narrative along with some other spiritual baggage. Did I look very deep into it? Not really, but it seemed to have flared up at the moment and I would rather want to care for things, rather than avoiding having passions.

These days almost all of us are cultural hybrids. We take bits and pieces from this and that and combine them into a some new recipe. It's what makes us distinctly who we are.
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15-05-2017, 08:23 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 07:08 AM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  
(15-05-2017 06:55 AM)ImFred Wrote:  http://www.dailybuddhism.com/archives/670

Strange dilemma.

7 fold path? I keep seeing it called 8 fold.

Super thanks. Yes in my angry fit, I did say 7 fold when it is supposed to be 8 fold. Thanks again Smile

Seems like you're already pretty much over it if you've forgotten that it's an 8-fold path. I don't see anything wrong with the noble 8-fold path, the 4 noble truths, or the 5 precepts. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with them. You got any specific criticisms?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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15-05-2017, 08:32 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 08:23 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-05-2017 07:08 AM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  Super thanks. Yes in my angry fit, I did say 7 fold when it is supposed to be 8 fold. Thanks again Smile

Seems like you're already pretty much over it if you've forgotten that it's an 8-fold path. I don't see anything wrong with the noble 8-fold path, the 4 noble truths, or the 5 precepts. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with them. You got any specific criticisms?

I follow the 8 fold path of yoga (i.e. the 8 limbs of yoga) as a philosophy in my own life...and I'm an atheist. I feel that it enhances my life. That said, I think anytime a philosophy of life (religion, spirituality, or otherwise) causes you distress or impacts your well-being, it's time to kick its spiritual/philosophical ass to the curb.

I'm sensing the Buddhist 8 fold path is causing SW2 some grief since SW is asking about it. Could be that via conditioning, it's hard to completely kick it to the curb.
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15-05-2017, 08:40 AM
RE: Needing Help Overcoming Zen Buddhism
(15-05-2017 08:32 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm sensing the Buddhist 8 fold path is causing SW2 some grief since SW is asking about it. Could be that via conditioning, it's hard to completely kick it to the curb.

That's true. I'm just curious as to which part of the noble 8-fold path the OP is having issues with.

THE NOBLE EIGHTFOLD PATH

Right Understanding (Samma ditthi)
Right Thought (Samma sankappa)
Right Speech (Samma vaca)
Right Action (Samma kammanta)
Right Livelihood (Samma ajiva)
Right Effort (Samma vayama)
Right Mindfulness (Samma sati)
Right Concentration (Samma samadhi)

Datta. Dayadhvam. Damyata.
Shantih shantih shantih

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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