'Needs' versus 'Wants'
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31-08-2011, 05:00 PM
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
(31-08-2011 04:20 PM)bemore Wrote:  Human basics for survival (food water warmth etc etc)

These are "needs"..........however before you obtain something you "want" it, and Vice-Versa.

Thats all I was saying my friend.

So you're actually talking about the perception of need? That we experience a physical need as a want, and thus go in search of it? That's fine, and we could resolve any confusion by calling the second category something else; say, "desires". And yes, you may desire heat when you're freezing to death, but most people wouldn't use the understatement.

On the other hand, i don't understand Vice-Versa.
Obtain something before wanting it? Perceive something already obtained as a need/ want?

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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31-08-2011, 07:29 PM
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
I think I have been very broad in my thinking......putting things into a convenient box as it were lol.

I then re-read your original post Zatamon.

Like you say its defined by the fine line of what truely is essential.....and what we have come to rely on.

TBH im not sure straight away how to answer this in detail without mulling it over in my head for a bit longer........allowing the thought a bit of room Smile

I also struggle with getting down in writing what I have in my head........you guys are more literate than me lol.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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31-08-2011, 08:03 PM
 
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
(31-08-2011 07:29 PM)bemore Wrote:  im not sure straight away how to answer this in detail without mulling it over in my head for a bit longer

Take your time, bemore. By the way, I like your handle!
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31-08-2011, 09:16 PM
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
(31-08-2011 07:29 PM)bemore Wrote:  I think I have been very broad in my thinking......putting things into a convenient box as it were lol.

A triangle is good, too. Check out the pyramid in HarleyQuinn's post on page 1. It's fairly comprehensive.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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08-09-2011, 02:29 AM
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
From the conspiracy forum I post on.............by a user called "infinite tea"


The more I want the more I need.

The more I need the more I depend on what I need.

The more I depend on what I need the harder I must work to ensure that I have enough of the thing that I depend on to be satisfied.

The harder I work the less I relax.

The less I relax the more stressed I become.

The more stressed I become the less people enjoy my company.

The less people enjoy my company the more I doubt myself.

The more I doubt myself the easier I am to exploit.

The easier I am to exploit the more insecure I feel.

The more insecure I feel the more security I want.

The more I want the more I need.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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10-09-2011, 10:32 AM
 
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
What a beautifully viscous circle, bemore!

Sad
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11-09-2011, 03:35 PM
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
Sigmund Freud wrote alot about this. It's particularily useful in educational psychology and still remains popular in general psycholanalysis.


He describes 3 entities that are linked:

The ES: energy, impulses, desires, libido. It's an endless flow of wanting when wanted: wild sex, booze, coke 24/7, no limits Big Grin
There is no rationality, just the principle of lust (not necessarily in the sexual context).

The ICH: also called the ego. It's the personality that's formed during education and contact with reality. The outside world frustrates a newborn because he doesn't always get his or her way. The 'wants' aren't always granted; a baby gets attention when he 'needs' it. The ES is formed into the ich: rationality, suppression of impulses (not eating 20 baby burgers, even if the are delicious. Cholesterol's bad for you Tongue)

The power controlling those 2 forces is called the ÜBER-ICH. It forms what we would call the conscience. This conscience is formed by external factors: parents, rules of society etc.
The Über-ich holds a persons concepts of good and evil, guilt and shame. It's in constant conflict with the Es and Ich.



So, the debate of needs and wants is something that's mostly based on the type of society someone lives in, as well as the strength of someones Es. Some people have uncontrollable urges; eating frenzies, masturbation marathons etc. Others haven't got that much powerful drive, but in general, the Es is a very powerful force that shouldn't be unleashed unto the world. The formation of the Über-ich is what counts. Hence the power of brainwashing, cultural norms etc.




Decadent societies give births to more behaviour impared, spoiled brats; alot of unealthy ES that can ventilate. Free education lowers norms and standards...

Disciplined kids, let's say Japanese kids have a very strong Ich and Über-ich. The ES can't ventilate as it should and societal pressure is often enormous; always smile, never say no directly, work hard (even on weekends), go out after ours. Maybe that's why they're the only ones having a work for death from overwork: Karōshi. They also have the nastiest porn industry. I wonder if this deviant behaviour can be explained as a manifestation of enormously concentrated ES?

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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11-09-2011, 04:14 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2011 04:22 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
Did Freud have much to say about balance? I haven't read him and it's too big a project to start now, so this is a sincere question.
Any need or personality trait that goes unsatisfied will present as a problem. Either overcompensation, or loss of control or loss of the power to act, or physical illness - something.

The philosophies of many ancient and/ or primitive* people's were based on balance. They all had a strong idea - similar, though not all identical - what a person needs to be healthy, happy, productive and a good member of hir community.
(* by primitive, i mean societies with no written history)

People have understood their own nature very well, for a very long time before Freud. He was not the answer to millennia of universal ignorance, but to a few centuries of xtian-inspired denial and suppression. He didn't even need to look off his own continent: he could mine ancient Greek literature for his material.

The problem right now is that we have Freud, plus marketing, plus militant religiosity, plus militant secular paranoia, plus a population that's accustomed to prosperity and self-indulgence, watching its economy go down the drain. North Americans are facing the biggest psychological challenge of their brief history: necessary adjustment to an altered world - a world they do not yet realize is out of their control.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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11-09-2011, 06:08 PM
 
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
I don't care what Freud has to say: I finished the roof on my greenhouse today!

336 square feet of glass, all in place, calked in, no rain will come in ever again!

I need that greenhouse because I do not want to depend on the bastards for my food. I want to eat fresh, ripe tomatoes in January, even if it dos not come from California or Chile!

Greenhouses have been in use for millennium, nothing new about them.

People always needed to eat.

That is one difference between need and want.
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11-09-2011, 10:58 PM
RE: 'Needs' versus 'Wants'
(11-09-2011 06:08 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  I don't care what Freud has to say: I finished the roof on my greenhouse today!

336 square feet of glass, all in place, calked in, no rain will come in ever again!

I need that greenhouse because I do not want to depend on the bastards for my food. I want to eat fresh, ripe tomatoes in January, even if it dos not come from California or Chile!

Greenhouses have been in use for millennium, nothing new about them.

People always needed to eat.

That is one difference between need and want.

Well, I don't NEED your tomatoes, but I sure WANT them, lol!

Congrats on the much needed(or should that be wanted?) glasshouse!

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
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