Neuter my dog?
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27-12-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(27-12-2013 11:29 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 11:02 AM)Dom Wrote:  This works for you because you have quality dogs who are tuned into and used to training. The average Joe with an exuberant dog and neither dog nor person having any training experience is going to fail here. Without a background in training and tons of interaction with their human, dogs will act on impulse, and even if the average dog stays within the parameter, that changes in an instant when they smell a female in heat or a rabbit.

My current Shepherd isn't neutered either, my other dogs are. Drago isn't neutered because I do intend to breed him, if and when I find a suitable female. He has an ass kicking pedigree of working dogs. He is also constantly with me and very tuned into training.

I would not recommend perimeter training to just anyone - it takes a lot of devotion and commitment by both owner and dog.

I disagree in part, Dom.

I've helped average joes with perimeter training. Without adequate exercise, and constant reinforcement in the beginning, I agree it's worthless.

I don't think I implied that showing them the perimeter once would be all it took. Or that regular and vigorous exercise wasn't required as part of this. Nor did I imply that it wouldn't take the help of others to test/reinforce the perimeter boundaries. He can't get an opportunity for correction unless he actually runs out of the perimeter. Also, the training needs to be tailored to his dog's personality. If his GS is a scouter, he needs to find ways to satisfy this hunting/tracking instinct/desire in his dog. Direction commands and "find the toy" games can quench the desire to roam.

But I'm sure his GS isn't just a knucklehead. The majority of them, if given tasks, respond very well.

I am quite aware of what it takes to do perimeter training.

That pretty much agrees with my point of view, it takes a lot of training. And not simple training like sit and stay and all of the basic obedience and manners, which really should come first because it's a lot easier, and so the dog will be used to paying attention and recognizing limits. And - I still maintain that even with the best of dogs and trainers, it will not be foolproof. You may get lucky and it lasts the dog's lifetime, but - instincts are instincts, and you can't kill the instincts. They are in the end the strongest, hardwired behavior trigger. In people too, even though we should know better. Good training and a receptive dog can override instinct much of the time, but not all of the time. At some point it becomes a matter of luck.

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27-12-2013, 06:39 PM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(27-12-2013 11:43 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 11:29 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I disagree in part, Dom.

I've helped average joes with perimeter training. Without adequate exercise, and constant reinforcement in the beginning, I agree it's worthless.

I don't think I implied that showing them the perimeter once would be all it took. Or that regular and vigorous exercise wasn't required as part of this. Nor did I imply that it wouldn't take the help of others to test/reinforce the perimeter boundaries. He can't get an opportunity for correction unless he actually runs out of the perimeter. Also, the training needs to be tailored to his dog's personality. If his GS is a scouter, he needs to find ways to satisfy this hunting/tracking instinct/desire in his dog. Direction commands and "find the toy" games can quench the desire to roam.

But I'm sure his GS isn't just a knucklehead. The majority of them, if given tasks, respond very well.

I am quite aware of what it takes to do perimeter training.

That pretty much agrees with my point of view, it takes a lot of training. And not simple training like sit and stay and all of the basic obedience and manners, which really should come first because it's a lot easier, and so the dog will be used to paying attention and recognizing limits. And - I still maintain that even with the best of dogs and trainers, it will not be foolproof. You may get lucky and it lasts the dog's lifetime, but - instincts are instincts, and you can't kill the instincts. They are in the end the strongest, hardwired behavior trigger. In people too, even though we should know better. Good training and a receptive dog can override instinct much of the time, but not all of the time. At some point it becomes a matter of luck.

Whose to say the OP won't put in the time and effort into this before he neuters? I'd say its worth a try. You can always neuter later on if it doesn't work. Whereas if he neuters he can't unring the bell, ya know?

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27-12-2013, 07:20 PM
RE: Neuter my dog?
Yes. Unneutered males run all sorts of health risks...not the least of which is getting hit by a car because they are chasing some bitch.

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27-12-2013, 10:07 PM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(27-12-2013 07:20 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Yes. Unneutered males run all sorts of health risks...not the least of which is getting hit by a car because they are chasing some bitch.

Couldn't disagree with you more. They don't run anymore health risks than neutered. Their health risks are just different.

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28-12-2013, 12:41 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
Volunteer in a shelter long enough and you'll be all for neutering and spaying. Drinking Beverage


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28-12-2013, 05:34 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(28-12-2013 12:41 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Volunteer in a shelter long enough and you'll be all for neutering and spaying. Drinking Beverage

Shelters are sad. In the shelters I've worked in, I'd say 80% of dropped off dogs are not from an overbreeding problem. It's a lack of research problem. A "I'll get this dog because it's cute problem." Ie, A fat or sedentay person gets a German pointer without any regard to its high energy. You are 300 lbs. so whatever is going on in your life - exercise is not your thing. Then the dog develops behavioral problems.

The puppies that come to the shelter are the first to be adopted. It's assholes for owners who think dog ownership is a temporary condition.

I agree for the most part that the population as a whole, as Dom said, are not prepared to handle an unaltered male or female. It's a lot of extra work that a lot of people don't have the time or the skill set for. But neutering/spaying doesn't have to be the *only* option.

We are all about research, knowledge and making informed decisions here. Even if you never breed, hormones have their benefits. If you wanna reap the benefits of those hormones without breeding, Don't let your female outside without you while in season. It's really that simple.

If you can't stop your dog from roaming, and aren't willing to put in the time to train, exercise and otherwise prevent copulation, then by all means, sterilize your animal.

For instance, I have zero control over my female cat. She does what she pleases, goes where she pleases, and there isn't anything I can do about it. So I got her fixed.

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28-12-2013, 06:09 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(28-12-2013 05:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 12:41 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Volunteer in a shelter long enough and you'll be all for neutering and spaying. Drinking Beverage

Shelters are sad. In the shelters I've worked in, I'd say 80% of dropped off dogs are not from an overbreeding problem. It's a lack of research problem. A "I'll get this dog because it's cute problem." Ie, A fat or sedentay person gets a German pointer without any regard to its high energy. You are 300 lbs. so whatever is going on in your life - exercise is not your thing. Then the dog develops behavioral problems.

The puppies that come to the shelter are the first to be adopted. It's assholes for owners who think dog ownership is a temporary condition.

I agree for the most part that the population as a whole, as Dom said, are not prepared to handle an unaltered male or female. It's a lot of extra work that a lot of people don't have the time or the skill set for. But neutering/spaying doesn't have to be the *only* option.

We are all about research, knowledge and making informed decisions here. Even if you never breed, hormones have their benefits. If you wanna reap the benefits of those hormones without breeding, Don't let your female outside without you while in season. It's really that simple.

If you can't stop your dog from roaming, and aren't willing to put in the time to train, exercise and otherwise prevent copulation, then by all means, sterilize your animal.

For instance, I have zero control over my female cat. She does what she pleases, goes where she pleases, and there isn't anything I can do about it. So I got her fixed.

Cathy, it is obvious that we have a lot in common. Not just knowledge about training animals, but also the desire to spend a lot of time doing this.

We are in the minority though. We can't assume that others will see the dog as such an important member of the household, or even as something they need to bear responsibility for. In many cases, when people run into issues that will take time and energy to fix, they discard the dog or banish it to a fenced yard or kennel.

And about training - most of the really successful training actually bases itself on the dog's instincts. We take the instinct and refine the way the dog uses it. Whether that is search and rescue or protection or a simple game of fetch - these are all instincts to start with. Even obedience training is instinct based - move the treat over the head of the puppy and the puppy will sit. Now you simply reinforce that behavior.

Resisting instincts is a whole other thing. Now you are training against the grain.

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30-12-2013, 08:09 PM
RE: Neuter my dog?
He isn't a working dog and you have no desire to breed him so neuter him. No point in taking a chance that he might crate some unwanted pups that could possibly end up in the shelter, have serious health issues, or terrible temperament for a GSD (poor nerves being the main one).

I don't know if the dog was on the leash at the time and slipped its collar, but if the dog was off leash, then the dog needs to go back on leash until it has had enough training to be trusted off a leas. If the dog slipped its collar then tighten the collar and put a backup choke/slip collar on the dog. It should be big enough and loose enough that it won't tighten if you pull or pop the leash. This is especially necessary if you are using a prong collar as the links can pop apart.

Dog training is an art. It takes a lot of work, time, and especially patience. There is no one way of getting a solid dog. Find what works for your dog and go forth. If something doesn't work, change what you are doing. Always be willing to change and adjust to your dog. Someone say praise, praise, praise. I will add this; if you do not sound like a high pitched little girl or do not feel like a complete idiot when you praise, then you are not praising enough, as a general rule. One thing I learned after several years of training dogs, never be afraid to look and sound like a complete dork. Big Grin
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30-12-2013, 10:05 PM
RE: Neuter my dog?
If you don't plan on breeding him fix the f'in dog!

@DOM

Do you have time to talk to me about the new GF's super aggressive little bitch?

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

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30-12-2013, 10:09 PM
RE: Neuter my dog?
I would, it's best to help keep the wild dog population down, they may not be adopted.
DOM: You know a lot about dogs! Do you think I could ask you a few questions?

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