Neuter my dog?
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31-12-2013, 05:49 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(30-12-2013 08:09 PM)slydog Wrote:  He isn't a working dog and you have no desire to breed him so neuter him. No point in taking a chance that he might crate some unwanted pups that could possibly end up in the shelter, have serious health issues, or terrible temperament for a GSD (poor nerves being the main one).

I don't know if the dog was on the leash at the time and slipped its collar, but if the dog was off leash, then the dog needs to go back on leash until it has had enough training to be trusted off a leas. If the dog slipped its collar then tighten the collar and put a backup choke/slip collar on the dog. It should be big enough and loose enough that it won't tighten if you pull or pop the leash. This is especially necessary if you are using a prong collar as the links can pop apart.

Dog training is an art. It takes a lot of work, time, and especially patience. There is no one way of getting a solid dog. Find what works for your dog and go forth. If something doesn't work, change what you are doing. Always be willing to change and adjust to your dog. Someone say praise, praise, praise. I will add this; if you do not sound like a high pitched little girl or do not feel like a complete idiot when you praise, then you are not praising enough, as a general rule. One thing I learned after several years of training dogs, never be afraid to look and sound like a complete dork. Big Grin

The ken thing you are right about, is that dog training is an art. And there is more than one way to paint a painting.

Dog handlers are a breed in themselves. Quirky, strange people.

I would add that the praise depends on the dog. You have to find what's the appreciates. High pitched and high energy isn't always the key. For example, both my SAR dogs prefer more me to drop my voice into a baratone and lots and lots of petting.

I *do* sound like an idiot, just not a high pitched girl.

I would say that more important than your style of praise is consistency once you find the right ticket. What one dog likes, another might not.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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31-12-2013, 06:17 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(30-12-2013 10:09 PM)Question Wrote:  I would, it's best to help keep the wild dog population down, they may not be adopted.
DOM: You know a lot about dogs! Do you think I could ask you a few questions?

(30-12-2013 10:05 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  If you don't plan on breeding him fix the f'in dog!

@DOM

Do you have time to talk to me about the new GF's super aggressive little bitch?

I started a dog training thread: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-your-dog.

Shoot your questions there. Shy

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31-12-2013, 06:49 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(28-12-2013 06:09 AM)Dom Wrote:  Cathy, it is obvious that we have a lot in common. Not just knowledge about training animals, but also the desire to spend a lot of time doing this.

We are in the minority though. We can't assume that others will see the dog as such an important member of the household, or even as something they need to bear responsibility for. In many cases, when people run into issues that will take time and energy to fix, they discard the dog or banish it to a fenced yard or kennel.

And about training - most of the really successful training actually bases itself on the dog's instincts. We take the instinct and refine the way the dog uses it. Whether that is search and rescue or protection or a simple game of fetch - these are all instincts to start with. Even obedience training is instinct based - move the treat over the head of the puppy and the puppy will sit. Now you simply reinforce that behavior.

Resisting instincts is a whole other thing. Now you are training against the grain.

Dom,I'd love to hear your opinion on a raw/homemade diet. I've got goldens, who are known for having bad allergies. Huge hot spots, recurring ear infections, and explosive diarrhea.

Anyway, after trying every commercial dog food on the planet, I decided to try the raw diet. There were so many conflicting reports but I figured it was worth a try. Whatever was the downside still had to be better than the monthly trips to the vet for steroids.

So I do a mixed raw diet of raw meat and raw bones, and a homemade cooked dog food. Wicked expensive, but when I factored in the vet bills, it was actually the same price.

I have a friend that owns a farm so I buy a pig and take leftover lamb or beef parts. (I keep the quality cuts for myself). The eat raw pork spare ribs, bone and all.

Then I also make homemade dog food. 35 lbs of cooked ground turkey, garlic, carrots, broccoli, 5 cups of rice, 10 sweet potatoes, and 15 apples yields 10 days worth of dog food. (I bag and freeze it). Frozen bananas and raw frozen beef marrow bones are treats

The dogs have been on this diet for 4 plus years now. The vet says that my 6 year old has the teeth of a 3 year old. No plague build up or anything. (I brush teeth once a week so that might have something to do with it)

Their hot spots are virtually gone. Maybe one or two a year instead of two a month.

My vet still stands firm on the raw diet/homemade dog food issue. He is against it.

I personally feel like the benefits outweigh the risks, especially of food poisoning. A dogs digestive tract is a lot shorter than a humans...the risk is not as great as you would think. Your thoughts?

*odd little benefit. There is no poop in my yard. Dogs on commercial dry dog food seem to take these gigantic dumps...and it just sits there until it's picked up. My dog takes small dumps - almost like his body uses more of the nutrients in the food. It's almost chalk like when they have had a meal of bones and raw meat that day. It disintegrates almost immediately, or is consumed by other animals. My poop cleanup days are over!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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31-12-2013, 07:37 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(31-12-2013 06:49 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 06:09 AM)Dom Wrote:  Cathy, it is obvious that we have a lot in common. Not just knowledge about training animals, but also the desire to spend a lot of time doing this.

We are in the minority though. We can't assume that others will see the dog as such an important member of the household, or even as something they need to bear responsibility for. In many cases, when people run into issues that will take time and energy to fix, they discard the dog or banish it to a fenced yard or kennel.

And about training - most of the really successful training actually bases itself on the dog's instincts. We take the instinct and refine the way the dog uses it. Whether that is search and rescue or protection or a simple game of fetch - these are all instincts to start with. Even obedience training is instinct based - move the treat over the head of the puppy and the puppy will sit. Now you simply reinforce that behavior.

Resisting instincts is a whole other thing. Now you are training against the grain.

Dom,I'd love to hear your opinion on a raw/homemade diet. I've got goldens, who are known for having bad allergies. Huge hot spots, recurring ear infections, and explosive diarrhea.

Anyway, after trying every commercial dog food on the planet, I decided to try the raw diet. There were so many conflicting reports but I figured it was worth a try. Whatever was the downside still had to be better than the monthly trips to the vet for steroids.

So I do a mixed raw diet of raw meat and raw bones, and a homemade cooked dog food. Wicked expensive, but when I factored in the vet bills, it was actually the same price.

I have a friend that owns a farm so I buy a pig and take leftover lamb or beef parts. (I keep the quality cuts for myself). The eat raw pork spare ribs, bone and all.

Then I also make homemade dog food. 35 lbs of cooked ground turkey, garlic, carrots, broccoli, 5 cups of rice, 10 sweet potatoes, and 15 apples yields 10 days worth of dog food. (I bag and freeze it). Frozen bananas and raw frozen beef marrow bones are treats

The dogs have been on this diet for 4 plus years now. The vet says that my 6 year old has the teeth of a 3 year old. No plague build up or anything. (I brush teeth once a week so that might have something to do with it)

Their hot spots are virtually gone. Maybe one or two a year instead of two a month.

My vet still stands firm on the raw diet/homemade dog food issue. He is against it.

I personally feel like the benefits outweigh the risks, especially of food poisoning. A dogs digestive tract is a lot shorter than a humans...the risk is not as great as you would think. Your thoughts?

*odd little benefit. There is no poop in my yard. Dogs on commercial dry dog food seem to take these gigantic dumps...and it just sits there until it's picked up. My dog takes small dumps - almost like his body uses more of the nutrients in the food. It's almost chalk like when they have had a meal of bones and raw meat that day. It disintegrates almost immediately, or is consumed by other animals. My poop cleanup days are over!

I think it is a good diet. To me, the major drawback is the expense and that it takes much time to prepare.

Mine get a mix of raw and quality kibble, because of above reasons. Now, my Shepherd was raised on pure raw diet, and stayed on it until age 4. The teeth are very clean still, but at age 4 he showed worn canines, they are not pointy anymore. This is from not enough actual tearing of meat and too much gnawing on bones. It is something to consider.

Even after the addition of kibble (now 60% of the diet) his stool remained small and odorless. It is mostly white and just crumbles apart and disappears. I think his digestive system just adapted to processing this way. I consider this a big plus.

Fur and skin are perfect at all times - when he was on raw and continuing now.

The potential issue is bacteria. The bacteria we get when humans handle the food is partially different from the kind they would encounter in the wild. The lady I bought Drago from is a police officer and she imports top dogs from Germany and finishes training and sells them to other officers. All her dogs are on pure raw, she has some 30 to 40 dogs at a time, and she has never had an issue. These dogs need to be in tip top health and shape....

So, I think there is some risk factor. A lot of people find a butcher and buy scraps, which is much more economical, but it is also more dangerous. The police officer did buy only meats designed for raw feeding, and it has actually higher quality standards than our meat. She used mostly buffalo. This gets very expensive...

I think this issue will always remain controversial, but really, I have yet to hear about a dog getting sick from it. It is not only a natural diet, but it is what domestic dogs were fed for centuries - raw meat and bones and leftover people food. Most breeds that originated in Europe evolved on this diet. It's not just what wild canines ate.

Personally, I think you are doing a better job than me. Yes

BTW, I once had a Shepherd with allergies like you describe. Hot spots, also auto immune issues causing the ear problems. At the time I was relying on the vet to treat her, we had tons of meds and special creams and soaps and the dog ended up on prednisone for life. The prednisone did help, but the dog's life span was shortened. So, on that level too, I think your solution is better.

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31-12-2013, 10:07 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(31-12-2013 06:17 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 10:09 PM)Question Wrote:  I would, it's best to help keep the wild dog population down, they may not be adopted.
DOM: You know a lot about dogs! Do you think I could ask you a few questions?

(30-12-2013 10:05 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  If you don't plan on breeding him fix the f'in dog!

@DOM

Do you have time to talk to me about the new GF's super aggressive little bitch?

I started a dog training thread: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-your-dog.

Shoot your questions there. Shy
Thanks! Probably be tomorrow before I have the time to explain the situation...

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

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31-12-2013, 10:20 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
About raw diets.

We had great results for the several years we raw fed. But it is expensive even when buying in bulk. We used to do group buys and purchased up to 1000 lbs of meat at a time... Keeping the damn kitchen clean was also a royal pain in the rear. Lots of bleach involved. We eventually went back to kibble but had excellent results with some of the super premium foods like Timberwolf Organics and Innova. Having said all that I learned over the years while cycling more than 50 fosters through our home that dogs are individuals, and different individuals handle the same diet differently.

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

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31-12-2013, 10:34 AM
RE: Neuter my dog?
(31-12-2013 05:49 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 08:09 PM)slydog Wrote:  He isn't a working dog and you have no desire to breed him so neuter him. No point in taking a chance that he might crate some unwanted pups that could possibly end up in the shelter, have serious health issues, or terrible temperament for a GSD (poor nerves being the main one).

I don't know if the dog was on the leash at the time and slipped its collar, but if the dog was off leash, then the dog needs to go back on leash until it has had enough training to be trusted off a leas. If the dog slipped its collar then tighten the collar and put a backup choke/slip collar on the dog. It should be big enough and loose enough that it won't tighten if you pull or pop the leash. This is especially necessary if you are using a prong collar as the links can pop apart.

Dog training is an art. It takes a lot of work, time, and especially patience. There is no one way of getting a solid dog. Find what works for your dog and go forth. If something doesn't work, change what you are doing. Always be willing to change and adjust to your dog. Someone say praise, praise, praise. I will add this; if you do not sound like a high pitched little girl or do not feel like a complete idiot when you praise, then you are not praising enough, as a general rule. One thing I learned after several years of training dogs, never be afraid to look and sound like a complete dork. Big Grin

The ken thing you are right about, is that dog training is an art. And there is more than one way to paint a painting.

Dog handlers are a breed in themselves. Quirky, strange people.

I would add that the praise depends on the dog. You have to find what's the appreciates. High pitched and high energy isn't always the key. For example, both my SAR dogs prefer more me to drop my voice into a baratone and lots and lots of petting.

I *do* sound like an idiot, just not a high pitched girl.

I would say that more important than your style of praise is consistency once you find the right ticket. What one dog likes, another might not.


Oh, yes, it most certainly depends on the dog, but as a general rule, the average joe doesn't praise enough and/or exuberant enough. Mals and dutchies you most certainly tone it down. A lot of calm petting and praise as they can go from calm to bouncy, mouthy dorks rather quickly.
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