New/Old Covenant
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31-10-2016, 10:09 AM
New/Old Covenant
I am currently looking not the concept behind the New and Old Covenant transition. I would love for someone to lay down a comprehensive and cited explanation of what is the accurate covenant. I'm having trouble understanding which one must be followed and to gain a better understanding to better myself in arguments concerning biblical text.
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31-10-2016, 11:48 AM
RE: New/Old Covenant
What is a covenant?

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31-10-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: New/Old Covenant
The "accurate" covenant? I don't know what you mean by that. Different Christian denominations make different claims about what supposedly changed. Some deny only the sacrificial laws, some deny all except the "10", some seem to pick and choose...

Jesus said that "not a jot or tittle" of the old law would change until the end time. He also said that he came to "fulfill" the law but since that doesn't mean anything it can mean whatever you want it to.

There's also multiple old covenants (e.g. Noadic, Mosaic, Abrahamic)

A few links to get started...
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?t...tament_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_theology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensati...t_theology

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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31-10-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: New/Old Covenant
The original "covenant" was that the Hebrews (while knowing and believing there were many gods) agreed to worship ONLY one of them, the Babylonian war deity, "Yahweh Sabaoth", (the 40th son of El Elyon, the "Lord of Hosts" ... a "host" is an arrayed army in battle formation),
... in exchange for his help in their battles.

Doing well in battle, (and fear of invaders), was the reason the early Israelites abandoned their *tribal confederation" political organization model, for a monarchy.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ble-Bull-s

There never was another covenant, until the new "Way" sub-sect of Jews (known as "Christians") eventually cooked it up to justify their new cult.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-10-2016, 12:47 PM
RE: New/Old Covenant
G'day mate, and welcome to the forum. Smile

https://weltonacademy.com/blogs/jonathan...transition

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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31-10-2016, 02:45 PM
RE: New/Old Covenant
The New Testament is a post-hoc kludge made up to explain why Jesus got himself killed as a criminal, in apparent disregard to all of the Jewish messiah criteria.

I'll let a Rabbi explain it:




Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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31-10-2016, 07:59 PM
RE: New/Old Covenant
(31-10-2016 10:09 AM)BillCotter Wrote:  I am currently looking not the concept behind the New and Old Covenant transition. I would love for someone to lay down a comprehensive and cited explanation of what is the accurate covenant.

Personally I think you should stop looking in the Bible altogether for accuracy and study The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy instead. As strange as this may sound, I'm quite serious about this. HHGTTG is IMO a vastly more enlightening book.
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31-10-2016, 10:08 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2016 11:23 PM by Aliza.)
RE: New/Old Covenant
(31-10-2016 10:09 AM)BillCotter Wrote:  I am currently looking not the concept behind the New and Old Covenant transition. I would love for someone to lay down a comprehensive and cited explanation of what is the accurate covenant. I'm having trouble understanding which one must be followed and to gain a better understanding to better myself in arguments concerning biblical text.

Hi there! Welcome to TTA. What exactly do you mean when you ask what the covenant is? Are you asking how Christians define the old and new covenant (ie: testament), or are you asking what the covenant meant to the original authors, the Jews? I'm a Jewish theist, so I might be able to help with understanding the latter.
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01-11-2016, 07:22 AM
RE: New/Old Covenant
The Old Covenant:
[Image: First+Chronicles.jpg]
The New Covenant:
[Image: Second+Chronicles.jpg]
Glad I could help. Smartass

[Image: ZF1ZJ4M.jpg]
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01-11-2016, 07:54 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2016 07:59 AM by Velvet.)
RE: New/Old Covenant
Well I might be completely wrong here, but in my experience this ''covenant speech'' is a rhetorical device used to disguise the bible's cherry picking.

For example, when an atheist points to something that is morally unjustifiable in the bible, the apologetic use it to undermine that particular part of the bible, to protect the whole, saying: ''oh, but thats ok, because this is from the covenant of xyz and therefore is not inspired by god''

I can tell you that if you research it, you will certainly find ''some logic'' behind its usage, but then again rhetorical devices are produced as if they were really something, is what makes then efficient.

But who knows, perhaps there's a really ''honest theist'' reason to divide the Bible in various ways, aside from the convenience of being able to selectively withdraw from any of those if shit hits the fan.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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