New Testament History revisited
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19-10-2016, 07:45 PM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2016 09:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: New Testament History revisited
(19-10-2016 06:11 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Wiki: The history of Şanlıurfa is recorded from the 4th century BC, but may date back at least to 9000 BC, when there is ample evidence for the surrounding sites at Duru, Harran and Nevali Cori.[4] Within the further area of the city are three neolithic sites known: Göbekli Tepe, Gürcütepe and the city itself, where the life-sized limestone "Urfa statue" was found during an excavation in Balıklıgöl.[5] The city was one of several in the upper Euphrates-Tigris basin, the fertile crescent where agriculture began.
[quote]

[quote]
According to Jewish and Muslim tradition, Urfa is Ur Kasdim, the hometown of Abraham. This identification was disputed by Leonard Woolley, the excavator of the Sumerian city of Ur in 1927 and scholars remain divided on the issue. Urfa is also one of several cities that have traditions associated with Job.

References required. Give us a number of scholarly references that corroborate that this is "Jewish tradition".

I take nothing back. You're nothing but a fucking fraud.
Not sure who said anything about "peer review" here.
Db is not even in the ballpark for "peer review".
No sane historian would even bother to read this garbage, much less actually review it formally. It's a total joke.
What we ask for is supporting documentation. He has nothing. Nothing.

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19-10-2016, 07:47 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(19-10-2016 06:18 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Have you even read the New Testament, Bucky? Have you even heard of Feuerbach? If so, what is your opinion on his view about what "god" is: "Thus God is nothing else than human: he is, so to speak, the outward projection of a human's inward nature. This projection is dubbed as a chimera by Feuerbach" Wiki

Here's my answer to your tripe :

Horus.
Fucking Horus. Weeping

Get help.
You're insane.

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19-10-2016, 07:54 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(19-10-2016 06:29 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I want to add this to the thread because it is highly relevant to the abusive smearing of my perceived "persona" here. There is a perception on this forum that "peer review" is the only sort of information that can be relied upon. However, reliance on peer review itself has been criticized and "dangerous".

Really? Is that what you think this is?

No, peer review is but one aspect of scholarship.
You are not being 'smeared', your ideas are being ridiculed because they are ridiculous.
You make up connections based on the flimsiest of thoughts, on erroneous understanding of the way languages work.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-10-2016, 08:08 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(19-10-2016 06:55 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(19-10-2016 06:26 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Well as a man who has studied Roman history for 36 years, this is news to me.

Are you sure you are not confusing the Jews with the Carthaginians?

Can you tell us about Epicureanism in the late Republic? I would be interested in your views on its significance in relation to, for instance, gnosticism.

The Jewish–Roman wars were a series of large-scale revolts by the Jews of the Eastern Mediterranean against the Roman Empire between 66 and 136 CE. Wiki

Seventy years then if you insist on being pedantic.

From which author's point of view? We only have writings by patricians. Would you like to discuss Cicero in his copies of Plato or other authors? How this philosophy was thought of by the Mob is unknown to me. Rome had a population that was very large indeed. Many belief systems existed due to religious freedom.

Also, we lack many of the details regarding mainstream ideas due to everything being burned by the xians. My honest answer would be much like it is for the history of Mithraism. We know very little.

What I have learned more than anything is how little we really know. Nevertheless archaeological discoveries turn up all the time.

I actually know more about xianity due to me being able to read those authors. My main knowledge of Epicureanism dates from the Hellenes.

I would be interested to hear if you have more detailed information in case I missed something.

What this has to do with the Jewish wars is beyond me though.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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21-10-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(19-10-2016 08:08 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(19-10-2016 06:55 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Can you tell us about Epicureanism in the late Republic? I would be interested in your views on its significance in relation to, for instance, gnosticism.

The Jewish–Roman wars were a series of large-scale revolts by the Jews of the Eastern Mediterranean against the Roman Empire between 66 and 136 CE. Wiki

Seventy years then if you insist on being pedantic.

From which author's point of view? We only have writings by patricians. Would you like to discuss Cicero in his copies of Plato or other authors? How this philosophy was thought of by the Mob is unknown to me. Rome had a population that was very large indeed. Many belief systems existed due to religious freedom.

Also, we lack many of the details regarding mainstream ideas due to everything being burned by the xians. My honest answer would be much like it is for the history of Mithraism. We know very little.

What I have learned more than anything is how little we really know. Nevertheless archaeological discoveries turn up all the time.

I actually know more about xianity due to me being able to read those authors. My main knowledge of Epicureanism dates from the Hellenes.

I would be interested to hear if you have more detailed information in case I missed something.

What this has to do with the Jewish wars is beyond me though.

Epicureanism rose to be the favoured "philosohy" of the intelligensia during the days of the late Republic. Stoicism became unpopular (I said gnosticism in my post). The point is that when you have a society which has become, at it's heart, secular and rational, and it is overtaken by a man like Julius Caesar who makes himself into a dictator and takes the society into an era of depravity, I wonder what happened to the followers of Epicureanism because it more or less disappeared so it seems.

"Epicureans had an important influence on Christianity. The Christian idea that holy people should separate themselves from the world, not think about their bodies or about the things they own or their friends and family and focus just on Heaven owes something to Epicureanism. But Christians hated Epicureans for denying the existence of heaven and hell, and the immortality of the soul, and for their reliance on pleasure as a good thing. So Epicureanism became less popular partly because of the rise of Christianity, and later medieval philosophers like Petrarch mostly made fun of Epicureanism and rejected it." K E Carr

The Romans controlled Judea and Egypt and the War with the Jews wasn't a war with Rabbinical Jews. It was a war with a warring class of the people of the Near East who had some kind of religious zeal stemming from whatever religion it is that Jesus is born into, which is a religion which appears similar to the Egyptian Pharoah cult of Horus.

At the end of the Claudian period there is a vacuum and out of it emerges a religion which owes something to Epicureanism and is pro-Roman, Hellenistic... The NT is a polemic work which is anti both Roman Claudian Emperor worship and anti "whatever the hell religion it was that Jesus was born into". The old religions which deify men are replaced by one which deifies a Hellenistic concept of "logos" and a rational moral philosophy.
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21-10-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(21-10-2016 12:08 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(19-10-2016 08:08 PM)Banjo Wrote:  From which author's point of view? We only have writings by patricians. Would you like to discuss Cicero in his copies of Plato or other authors? How this philosophy was thought of by the Mob is unknown to me. Rome had a population that was very large indeed. Many belief systems existed due to religious freedom.

Also, we lack many of the details regarding mainstream ideas due to everything being burned by the xians. My honest answer would be much like it is for the history of Mithraism. We know very little.

What I have learned more than anything is how little we really know. Nevertheless archaeological discoveries turn up all the time.

I actually know more about xianity due to me being able to read those authors. My main knowledge of Epicureanism dates from the Hellenes.

I would be interested to hear if you have more detailed information in case I missed something.

What this has to do with the Jewish wars is beyond me though.

Epicureanism rose to be the favoured "philosohy" of the intelligensia during the days of the late Republic. Stoicism became unpopular (I said gnosticism in my post). The point is that when you have a society which has become, at it's heart, secular and rational, and it is overtaken by a man like Julius Caesar who makes himself into a dictator and takes the society into an era of depravity, I wonder what happened to the followers of Epicureanism because it more or less disappeared so it seems.

"Epicureans had an important influence on Christianity. The Christian idea that holy people should separate themselves from the world, not think about their bodies or about the things they own or their friends and family and focus just on Heaven owes something to Epicureanism. But Christians hated Epicureans for denying the existence of heaven and hell, and the immortality of the soul, and for their reliance on pleasure as a good thing. So Epicureanism became less popular partly because of the rise of Christianity, and later medieval philosophers like Petrarch mostly made fun of Epicureanism and rejected it." K E Carr

The Romans controlled Judea and Egypt and the War with the Jews wasn't a war with Rabbinical Jews. It was a war with a warring class of the people of the Near East who had some kind of religious zeal stemming from whatever religion it is that Jesus is born into, which is a religion which appears similar to the Egyptian Pharoah cult of Horus.

At the end of the Claudian period there is a vacuum and out of it emerges a religion which owes something to Epicureanism and is pro-Roman, Hellenistic... The NT is a polemic work which is anti both Roman Claudian Emperor worship and anti "whatever the hell religion it was that Jesus was born into". The old religions which deify men are replaced by one which deifies a Hellenistic concept of "logos" and a rational moral philosophy.

Oh brother. You have NO idea what you are talking about.

Go and read Seneca or something and STFU.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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21-10-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(19-10-2016 06:11 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  According to Jewish and Muslim tradition, Urfa is Ur Kasdim, the hometown of Abraham.

Still waiting for references.
Oh wait. You made it up, like everything you post.

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21-10-2016, 03:26 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(21-10-2016 01:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-10-2016 06:11 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  According to Jewish and Muslim tradition, Urfa is Ur Kasdim, the hometown of Abraham.

Still waiting for references.
Oh wait. You made it up, like everything you post.

"According to Jewish and Muslim tradition, Urfa is Ur Kasdim, the hometown of Abraham. This identification was disputed by Leonard Woolley, the excavator of the Sumerian city of Ur in 1927 and scholars remain divided on the issue. Urfa is also one of several cities that have traditions associated with Job."
-Wikipedia

Partial (unattributed) quotes are part of his stock in trade. Drinking Beverage

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21-10-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(19-10-2016 07:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-10-2016 06:29 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I want to add this to the thread because it is highly relevant to the abusive smearing of my perceived "persona" here. There is a perception on this forum that "peer review" is the only sort of information that can be relied upon. However, reliance on peer review itself has been criticized and "dangerous".

Really? Is that what you think this is?

No, peer review is but one aspect of scholarship.
You are not being 'smeared', your ideas are being ridiculed because they are ridiculous.
You make up connections based on the flimsiest of thoughts, on erroneous understanding of the way languages work.

I would say that being called "fucking idiot" is smearing and not constructive criticism.

Ok, here is my "flimsy" thinking on language.

Sumerian was agglutinative. Other languages which followed it are not. However, they contain similar words in a different order. Turkish is agglutinative. So, is Turkish closer to Sumerian than non-agglutinative languages.

Let's hear what you have to say about that.
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21-10-2016, 08:45 PM
RE: New Testament History revisited
(21-10-2016 08:40 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(19-10-2016 07:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  Really? Is that what you think this is?

No, peer review is but one aspect of scholarship.
You are not being 'smeared', your ideas are being ridiculed because they are ridiculous.
You make up connections based on the flimsiest of thoughts, on erroneous understanding of the way languages work.

I would say that being called "fucking idiot" is smearing and not constructive criticism.

Ok, here is my "flimsy" thinking on language.

Sumerian was agglutinative. Other languages which followed it are not. However, they contain similar words in a different order. Turkish is agglutinative. So, is Turkish closer to Sumerian than non-agglutinative languages.

Let's hear what you have to say about that.

I say citations are required. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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