New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
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12-10-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 04:37 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 04:20 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  My son attended schools throughout his 12+ years which each had "no weapons allowed" signs, with a pictograph of a gun, alongside a knife, on it.
When I went to school, we didn't need those signs, where I come from people just kind of assume that you don't takes knives and guns to school. I mean, you know, your there to learn math, science and english and stuff. Bag, pencils, books, lunchbox are much more useful for that.

Perhaps in US it's not so obvious.

You'll see people on the internet urging that MORE PEOPLE have guns in schools.
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12-10-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 05:08 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 04:37 PM)Stevil Wrote:  When I went to school, we didn't need those signs, where I come from people just kind of assume that you don't takes knives and guns to school. I mean, you know, your there to learn math, science and english and stuff. Bag, pencils, books, lunchbox are much more useful for that.

Perhaps in US it's not so obvious.

You'll see people on the internet urging that MORE PEOPLE have guns in schools.
Well, yeah, they argue that it is almost an obligation (or duty, as an American) to take yer gun into school, so that you can be the unsung hero, the defender of the innocent.
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12-10-2016, 05:36 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 05:15 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 05:08 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  You'll see people on the internet urging that MORE PEOPLE have guns in schools.
Well, yeah, they argue that it is almost an obligation (or duty, as an American) to take yer gun into school, so that you can be the unsung hero, the defender of the innocent.

The school shootings of the future might take out entire classes. I think it will take something that horrifically stupid to get people to actually thinking about this issue.
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12-10-2016, 06:20 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 05:59 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The people who put up such signs are NOT experts in firearm use.

They're people who more likely have never touched a firearm [...]
Citation needed.

I understand the point you're making here about the rank stupidity of "NO GUNS" signs at schools—as if that'd ultimately stop a criminal attacker from using guns LOL—but I'm not sure it's a very salient one in the light of any/all school environments. At the moment, as it has for a long time past in Australia, firearms and bladed weapons are totally prohibited in all schools—without the need for any signage proclaiming such. Teachers and principals strictly enforce it, both within classrooms and inside fenced, school perimeter boundaries. Any student caught with an offensive weapon will be handed over to the police within minutes, and their parents called in.

I think you're failing to diffrentiate the firearms threat from within schools from that outside of schools—that is, students carrying guns versus armed extremists attacking the school from without.

US federal and state laws deeming schools gun-free zones have significantly reduced gun violence in these places. School-associated student homicide rates decreased significantly after the federal laws restricting guns in schools were adopted in the early 1990s, and fewer students are carrying guns. Proposals offered by the gun lobby to repeal the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act [GFSZA-1990] and arm teachers as a solution to curb those rare instances of gun violence at school are dangerous and counter-productive. Teachers are not trained law enforcement officer—their purpose is to be educators and role models.

Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report, School-Associated Student Homicides—United States, 1992-2006 (18 Jan 2008). (The rates decreased from from 0.07 per 100,000 students to 0.03 per 100,000 students.)

Danice K. Eaton et al., Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance—United States, 2007, Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report, (6 June 2008)

Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, No Gun Left Behind: The Gun Lobby’s Campaign to Push Guns Into Colleges and Schools, (May 2007)

Personally, were I a high school teacher standing in front of 20 teenagers with baby Glocks or Sigs in their pockets, I wouldn't feel all that comfortable—or safe (particularly in a socially disadvantaged suburb). Would you?

Confused

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12-10-2016, 06:49 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
And now two page of "yeah, but!"
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12-10-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 03:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are enough guns in the U.S. for everyone to have at least one. [...]

Actually more Chas. The latest figures indicate that there are 112.6 guns per US resident.
Ingraham, Christopher (2015-10-05). "There are now more guns than people in the United States". The Washington Post.

[Image: 5430.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto...a659ahttp:]
Fred, who has a collection of more than
40 firearms, lays out some of his rifles.


[Image: 5760.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto...9a79d273d1]
Handguns in the gun safe, also belonging to Fred.

Fred, a 39-year-old truck driver from Ocala, Florida, has about 40 guns—roughly 24 pistols and 14 long guns. He said his firearms collection began to grow after he became a father. He had a catastrophic knee injury that he worried would make it hard for him to protect his wife and child, and when he researched his neighborhood, he saw crime was going up. "I want everyone in my home to be able to defend themselves at a moment’s notice if a violent criminal decides he wants to break down the door," he said.

Fred said his wife usually carried a gun in her purse or on her person, and his 70-year-old mother, who sings in the church choir, had become such a gun enthusiast that he got her a laser sight for her gun for Christmas. He keeps guns stored in the living room; in his bedroom, on both his side and his wife’s side of the bed; and in his garage workshop.

—Ironically, the only reason a "violent criminal" would "break down" Fred's door is to steal a few of his many guns. Rolleyes

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12-10-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 04:11 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 03:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  While that sounds logical, there is no practicable way to insure that dangerous people don't get them.
There are enough guns in the U.S. for everyone to have at least one. They can be covertly manufactured, they can be smuggled.

We have laws and procedures for obtaining them legally. Let's address the ease with which they're obtained illegally.
Ardent gunners talk about me demanding perfect scenarios. Laugh out load

You must be hallucinating since I did no such thing.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-10-2016, 07:07 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 06:20 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 05:59 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The people who put up such signs are NOT experts in firearm use.

They're people who more likely have never touched a firearm [...]
Citation needed.

I understand the point you're making here about the rank stupidity of "NO GUNS" signs at schools—as if that'd ultimately stop a criminal attacker from using guns LOL—but I'm not sure it's a very salient one in the light of any/all school environments. At the moment, as it has for a long time past in Australia, firearms and bladed weapons are totally prohibited in all schools—without the need for any signage proclaiming such. Teachers and principals strictly enforce it, both within classrooms and inside fenced, school perimeter boundaries. Any student caught with an offensive weapon will be handed over to the police within minutes, and their parents called in.

I think you're failing to diffrentiate the firearms threat from within schools from that outside of schools—that is, students carrying guns versus armed extremists attacking the school from without.

US federal and state laws deeming schools gun-free zones have significantly reduced gun violence in these places. School-associated student homicide rates decreased significantly after the federal laws restricting guns in schools were adopted in the early 1990s, and fewer students are carrying guns. Proposals offered by the gun lobby to repeal the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act [GFSZA-1990] and arm teachers as a solution to curb those rare instances of gun violence at school are dangerous and counter-productive. Teachers are not trained law enforcement officer—their purpose is to be educators and role models.

Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report, School-Associated Student Homicides—United States, 1992-2006 (18 Jan 2008). (The rates decreased from from 0.07 per 100,000 students to 0.03 per 100,000 students.)

Danice K. Eaton et al., Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance—United States, 2007, Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report, (6 June 2008)

Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, No Gun Left Behind: The Gun Lobby’s Campaign to Push Guns Into Colleges and Schools, (May 2007)

Personally, were I a high school teacher standing in front of 20 teenagers with baby Glocks or Sigs in their pockets, I wouldn't feel all that comfortable—or safe (particularly in a socially disadvantaged suburb). Would you?

Confused

Strawmen everywhere. Facepalm

No one here has suggested high school students be allowed to bring guns to school.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-10-2016, 07:10 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 07:14 PM by Chas.)
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 07:00 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 03:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are enough guns in the U.S. for everyone to have at least one. [...]

Actually more Chas. The latest figures indicate that there are 112.6 guns per US resident.
Ingraham, Christopher (2015-10-05). "There are now more guns than people in the United States". The Washington Post.

I am quite sure your number is two orders of magnitude too high.

Quote:
[Image: 5430.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto...a659ahttp:]
Fred, who has a collection of more than
40 firearms, lays out some of his rifles.


[Image: 5760.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto...9a79d273d1]
Handguns in the gun safe, also belonging to Fred.

Fred, a 39-year-old truck driver from Ocala, Florida, has about 40 guns—roughly 24 pistols and 14 long guns. He said his firearms collection began to grow after he became a father. He had a catastrophic knee injury that he worried would make it hard for him to protect his wife and child, and when he researched his neighborhood, he saw crime was going up. "I want everyone in my home to be able to defend themselves at a moment’s notice if a violent criminal decides he wants to break down the door," he said.

Fred said his wife usually carried a gun in her purse or on her person, and his 70-year-old mother, who sings in the church choir, had become such a gun enthusiast that he got her a laser sight for her gun for Christmas. He keeps guns stored in the living room; in his bedroom, on both his side and his wife’s side of the bed; and in his garage workshop.

—Ironically, the only reason a "violent criminal" would "break down" Fred's door is to steal a few of his many guns. Rolleyes

He is in the vast minority of gun owners.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-10-2016, 08:00 PM
RE: New Texas gun control law allows concealed guns on campus
(12-10-2016 07:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 07:00 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Actually more Chas. The latest figures indicate that there are 112.6 guns per US resident.
Ingraham, Christopher (2015-10-05). "There are now more guns than people in the United States". The Washington Post.

I am quite sure your number is two orders of magnitude too high.

Quote:—Ironically, the only reason a "violent criminal" would "break down" Fred's door is to steal a few of his many guns. Rolleyes

He is in the vast minority of gun owners.

The only reason would be to steal guns? Reporters. Rolleyes
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