New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
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25-05-2017, 03:39 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
(25-05-2017 03:27 PM)Vera Wrote:  But there *is* between a rock and a hard place clam. You're just messing with their ignorant heads, is what you're doing, Bucky, dearest.

The boundary may be murky at the... well, the boundary but it's there and pretending it ain't, ain't helping nothing. At least I still fail to see how it's helping *anything*

I do get your point, and agree, actually.
But at the "proto-cellular" level, the distinctions are important, as they can arise with no "intervention".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcwJEl0VE88

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25-05-2017, 03:47 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
Yeah, that's why I asked if he was talking exclusively about abiogenesis or in general. Tongue

But am mostly trolling this place because am kinda unable to concentrate on work for some reason Rolleyes

Read this the other day: Chemists may be zeroing in on chemical reactions that sparked the first life

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25-05-2017, 04:40 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
How do we get water that doesn't have oxygen in it? Consider
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25-05-2017, 05:35 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
(25-05-2017 03:27 PM)Vera Wrote:  But there *is* between a rock and a hard place clam. You're just messing with their ignorant heads, is what you're doing, Bucky, dearest.

The boundary may be murky at the... well, the boundary but it's there and pretending it ain't, ain't helping nothing. At least I still fail to see how it's helping *anything*

life, noun

1. the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

I think the typical traits that define life are primarily emergent behaviors of assemblages of cells, as such, they have no reductive equivalent in the early abiogenetic environment. In abiogenesis, there is no reproductive systems and homeostasis as such, it literally is just "stuff doing stuff." It's more a chemical reaction, at the reductive level, until life reaches a certain level of complexity at which the behaviors which define life can emerge. So it's really an example of the sorites paradox, that 'life' behaviors don't arise until later, but there's no defining point at which they do. In other words, when you apply reduction to these behaviors for early abiogenetic forms, the behaviors disappear in a mess of detail.

I think.... anyway. Maybe that isn't what he means. :shrug:
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25-05-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
Well, my green friend, like I said, it might make sense if he's talking about abiogenesis. If not, sounds an awful lot like woo.

All I know is, life is a means. A means for the universe to understand itself.

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25-05-2017, 06:46 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith


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25-05-2017, 07:00 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
But it needs a physical outlet Rolleyes

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25-05-2017, 07:31 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
(25-05-2017 04:40 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  How do we get water that doesn't have oxygen in it? Consider

By distinguishing between the oxygen bound into the molecule (H2O) and the oxygen dissolved in the water (O2). The latter is available for aerobic respiration but the former is not. Breaking oxygen out of water molecules requires a lot of energy.

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25-05-2017, 07:59 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
(25-05-2017 03:27 PM)Vera Wrote:  But there *is* between a rock and a hard place clam.

My rocks object to your baseless slander. Tongue

You're right, there is a difference between a rock and a clam. It's very similar to the difference between a clam and a dog. You have to be spectacularly dim or a few beer short of a six pack to be unable to distinguish between man's favorite four-footed friend and his footless, anaphylaxis-inducing, hard-shelled nemesis. But then you start tracing their ancestry back and discover that their distant ancestors looked damned similar. Eventually you find that Rex and Clamato originated from a common ancestor and at that point there was no difference between the puppy and the scum-sucking bottom feeder.

Keep tracing it back and you find that those ancestors get simpler and simpler, until you're dealing with a self-catalyzing chemical reaction and, before that, inanimate matter. You can clearly tell the difference between the clam and the rock today because of 4 billion years of very different processes that separate them. At the moment of abiogenesis 4 billion years ago you would have had a very hard time distinguishing between the "living" molecule that would become life as we know it and all the rest of the primordial gumbo.

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25-05-2017, 08:06 PM
RE: New Theories on the Origin of Life with Dr. Eric Smith
Okay, for the last time - I did say, like a hundred (or three or four Rolleyes ) times, that it - might - make sense if he was talking *only* about abiogenesis. Jeez, guys!

Also, haven't given it too much attention, but there's a certain Gaia feel to it which made me wary. May be wrong, though.

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