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18-05-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 01:44 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 01:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  There is no friction between Christianity and evolution. It's all perceived by the indoctrinated Christian mainstream.

The dilemma is simply non-existent.

Evolution is FACT; one that I believe. And, that doesn't... in any way... hurt my faith.

I'm an Evolutionary Creationist. It's a form of Theistic Evolution.

If you're serious about this, go here.

That site will answer all your questions. It's founded and maintained by REAL scientists... not clowns like Hovind and Ham.

How do Evolutionary Creationists deal with the concept of original sin? I know that was a problem in my church--in terms of why they were against evolution.

If you're an EC or TE, you don't believe in a literal Genesis... if you do... I don't see a reconciliation.

Anyway, there is a lot more theology here than I'm going to bother with typing out, but it boils down to us not having sin because of of Adam and Eve, but us having sin because that's the way God planned it and it's always been there. We were never perfect. Nor were we ever meant to be perfect.

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18-05-2015, 01:58 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 01:56 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 01:44 PM)jennybee Wrote:  How do Evolutionary Creationists deal with the concept of original sin? I know that was a problem in my church--in terms of why they were against evolution.

If you're an EC or TE, you don't believe in a literal Genesis... if you do... I don't see a reconciliation.

Anyway, there is a lot more theology here than I'm going to bother with typing out, but it boils down to us not having sin because of of Adam and Eve, but us having sin because that's the way God planned it and it's always been there. We were never perfect. Nor were we ever meant to be perfect.

Yes, much more reasonable than Ham and my ex-church! Thumbsup Thanks for info!
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18-05-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 01:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 01:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  There is no friction between Christianity and evolution. It's all perceived by the indoctrinated Christian mainstream.

The dilemma is simply non-existent.

Evolution is FACT; one that I believe. And, that doesn't... in any way... hurt my faith.

I'm an Evolutionary Creationist. It's a form of Theistic Evolution.

If you're serious about this, go here.

That site will answer all your questions. It's founded and maintained by REAL scientists... not clowns like Hovind and Ham.

There is most certainly a conflict.
There is no evidence whatsoever that evolution needs any help from any gods.

It all works mechanically, algorithmically, without intent, without design, without goals.

No there isn't.

Stop trying to create an argument.

There is a conflict if you don't believe in God. There isn't a conflict if you believe in God.

I was specifically talking about Christians who believe in evolution.

And, you know that. You're just trying to be contrary because Chas.

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18-05-2015, 02:10 PM
RE: New To Forum
(17-05-2015 05:22 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  As far as I understand evolution has three facets: 1 random mutation 2 natural selection 3 common descent

The third one is the most problematic for a theist.

As for random mutation and natural selection, they do not affect belief in a Creator. Common descent is problematic because it contradicts the story of the creation of Adam. Just a point.

Do you think the writer of Genesis creation story, was given by God this deep insight into the past, as to how everything came to be, and the events that transpired at the time, and penned it accordingly? That he saw himself as writing history?

And I would say, that since theists unlike atheists, are not as inclined to subscribe to ontological naturalism, when it comes to considering scientific discoveries, they would at least have at least adopt a methodological naturalism. I.E think as if there was not God, what would be the best explanation I can come up with for our existence? You don't particularly have to buy an explanation if you find it stretched a bit too much, but you should at least be able to evaluate them to see if they do hold up. And I do think they do hold up a great deal.

In doing so, one would likely recognize that the theory of evolution, is the best natural explanation we have for the development of life. Now an atheists is likely to be more dependent on this, than a theists would, often having to resort to reductionism. It can get pretty weird for them sometimes as a result, particularly when it comes to morality and consciousness and such, but that's more a problem for them, than theists.
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18-05-2015, 02:10 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 01:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  There is a conflict if you don't believe in God. There isn't a conflict if you believe in God.

Sorry, I'm not with you. If "you don't believe in god", there's a conflict. Conflict between whom and/or what?
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18-05-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 02:10 PM)jockmcdock Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 01:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  There is a conflict if you don't believe in God. There isn't a conflict if you believe in God.

Sorry, I'm not with you. If "you don't believe in god", there's a conflict. Conflict between whom and/or what?

Don't believe in God = why need a goddidit
Do believe in God = goddidit

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18-05-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 01:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 01:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is most certainly a conflict.
There is no evidence whatsoever that evolution needs any help from any gods.

It all works mechanically, algorithmically, without intent, without design, without goals.

No there isn't.

Stop trying to create an argument.

There is a conflict if you don't believe in God. There isn't a conflict if you believe in God.

I was specifically talking about Christians who believe in evolution.

And, you know that. You're just trying to be contrary because Chas.

Try actually reading my response. There is no evidence of any gods in evolution.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-05-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 02:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 02:10 PM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Sorry, I'm not with you. If "you don't believe in god", there's a conflict. Conflict between whom and/or what?

Don't believe in God = why need a goddidit
Do believe in God = goddidit

Yabut, God did what? Evolution is an algorithmic process; no gods are needed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-05-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 02:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 01:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  No there isn't.

Stop trying to create an argument.

There is a conflict if you don't believe in God. There isn't a conflict if you believe in God.

I was specifically talking about Christians who believe in evolution.

And, you know that. You're just trying to be contrary because Chas.

Try actually reading my response. There is no evidence of any gods in evolution.

You quoted me, but I don't think YOU actually read what I wrote.

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18-05-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 02:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 02:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Don't believe in God = why need a goddidit
Do believe in God = goddidit

Yabut, God did what? Evolution is an algorithmic process; no gods are needed.

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