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18-05-2015, 03:38 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:19 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 11:33 AM)jockmcdock Wrote:  To quote yourself "Majority of people cannot verify these facts but must conform to the scientific clergy. Reminds of the Church."

So, you can verify all the facts about medical treatment? I'm impressed.

Medical research is confirmed once it works. People recover from illnesses. Even then it is experimental and not certain.

Evolution on the other hand is an inferred hypothesis from different observable experiments.

This started with finches, then moths and now genes and DNA. I wouldn't disagree with empirical observed science.
What I would dispute is the inferences made from it.

Actually it didn't start that way. The questions were raised in England around Darwin's time, but not really by him, first. Since you know next to nothing about science it's really not important what inferences you agree with or don't agree with. Anyone SO ignorant as to come here with nonsense from Behe is just sad.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-05-2015, 03:38 PM
RE: New To Forum
Unlike Google translate I actually speak Dutch (I live in Holland)

Q: "Theists came up with goddidit? Who the fuck else would have?"

You haven't actually answered this question.
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18-05-2015, 03:39 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2015 03:46 PM by objectivetheist.)
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:32 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 03:13 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  Ash'arites state that faith is based on the usage of the mind.
Didn't really answer. So I'll let you carry on.

The main dispute between the two groups is on the attributes of the Creator. Not on rationality of faith.
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18-05-2015, 03:42 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2015 03:45 PM by objectivetheist.)
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:38 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 03:19 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  Medical research is confirmed once it works. People recover from illnesses. Even then it is experimental and not certain.

Evolution on the other hand is an inferred hypothesis from different observable experiments.

This started with finches, then moths and now genes and DNA. I wouldn't disagree with empirical observed science.
What I would dispute is the inferences made from it.

Actually it didn't start that way. The questions were raised in England around Darwin's time, but not really by him, first. Since you know next to nothing about science it's really not important what inferences you agree with or don't agree with. Anyone SO ignorant as to come here with nonsense from Behe is just sad.

Typical atheist ad hominem attacks. Do not use fallacies please, including generalisations, strawmen to burn and stereotypes. I'm not quoting or using Behe. You only mention him because I said I read his works. Well I've read others including Dawkins as well.
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18-05-2015, 03:42 PM
RE: New To Forum
Answer my post by dissecting the contents. One person posted and answered my question earlier which I accepted.

Don't get emotional and learn from us Brits gow to play it cool.
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18-05-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:38 PM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Unlike Google translate I actually speak Dutch (I live in Holland)

Q: "Theists came up with goddidit? Who the fuck else would have?"

You haven't actually answered this question.

What are you even talking about? Why is this even being asked? This isn't even an issue.

/facepalm

Okay. I'll just assume that everything is being lost in translation. In English. In text. Re-readable text. That doesn't go anywhere. Within the timeframe of like an hour. Whatever.

1) I said there is no conflict with evolution and Christianity.
2) Chas said yes there is because God is not needed for evolution.
3) I said if you believe in God then God is needed for evolution. If you don't believe in God, there is no need to reconcile God and evolution.
4) Chas said no, God isn't needed for evolution.
5) I said -_- Chas...
6) Chas said "lolk jk"
7) You said "wait I don't get what you're saying"
8) I gave the abbreviated version of what I said.
9) You said OMGATHEISTSDONTHAVEGODINEVOLUTION
10) I said yeah, I know.
11) You said OMGATHEISTSDONTHAVEGODINEVOLUTION, idiot
12) I said yeah I know in Spanish
13) etc etc etc

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
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18-05-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:42 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  Typical atheist ad hominem attacks. Do not use fallacies please, including generalisations, strawmen to burn and stereotypes. I'm not quoting or usin Behe. You only mention him because I said I read his works. Well I've read others including Dawkins as well.

But you've mentioned no one else. You also accused me of arguing from Aquinas and Augustine when I wasn't. You didn't get that atheism and Evolution are not related questions. I have used no "ad hominem" attacks. You have brought criticism on yourself. Point out EXACTLY what 'falacies" I have used. Oh wait. You can't. Typical believer who starts whining "oh oh ad homs" when they have no other arguments.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-05-2015, 03:47 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:36 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 03:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, it's actually been observed. It's not a hypothesis.

To clarify what I mean I say: what is observable is limited in its scope. The facts of natural selection have been proven through observation. Random beneficial mutation on the other hand is less observable but nevertheless is also a reality. It has been noticed in nature. However it does not account for building complex organisms, that is something inferred and hypothesised by scientists.
The outreach of random mutation has been inflated. Its actual reach is much more limited.

Then we have the fossil records... Well much of what is INFERRED from the fossil record is speculation. It does not count as overwhelming bindin proof. What is inferred is based upon the inferences of Darwinism. Yes there are a few cases of hybrid forms but the Cambrian explosion shows that not all creatures have hybrid forms but appeared fully formed on earth..

Your personal incredulity does not an argument make Drinking Beverage

Edit: I've bolded your unsupported statements.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-05-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 03:42 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  Typical atheist ad hominem attacks. Do not use fallacies please, including generalisations, strawmen to burn and stereotypes. I'm not quoting or usin Behe. You only mention him because I said I read his works. Well I've read others including Dawkins as well.

But you've mentioned no one else. You also accused me of arguing from Aquinas and Augustine when I wasn't. You didn't get that atheism and Evolution are not related questions. I have used no "ad hominem" attacks. You have brought criticism on yourself. Point out EXACTLY what 'falacies" I have used. Oh wait. You can't. Typical believer who starts whining "oh oh ad homs" when they have no other arguments.

I've mentioned the fallacies above. How they apply use your mind and make the correlation.

I was not saying you are quoting Augustine or Aquinas but saying your objection is in line with the dispute that the two had. Augustine believed in a personal God and Aquinas objected with the infinity argument. What I was telling you was that the argument would not apply to me as My concept of God is totally different.

Going back to the subject, my remarks regarding evolution are from my own thoughts. I would want to know how you dissect them.
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18-05-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:45 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 03:38 PM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Unlike Google translate I actually speak Dutch (I live in Holland)

Q: "Theists came up with goddidit? Who the fuck else would have?"

You haven't actually answered this question.

What are you even talking about? Why is this even being asked? This isn't even an issue.

/facepalm

Okay. I'll just assume that everything is being lost in translation. In English. In text. Re-readable text. That doesn't go anywhere. Within the timeframe of like an hour. Whatever.

1) I said there is no conflict with evolution and Christianity.
2) Chas said yes there is because God is not needed for evolution.
3) I said if you believe in God then God is needed for evolution. If you don't believe in God, there is no need to reconcile God and evolution.
4) Chas said no, God isn't needed for evolution.
5) I said -_- Chas...
6) Chas said "lolk jk"
7) You said "wait I don't get what you're saying"
8) I gave the abbreviated version of what I said.
9) You said OMGATHEISTSDONTHAVEGODINEVOLUTION
10) I said yeah, I know.
11) You said OMGATHEISTSDONTHAVEGODINEVOLUTION, idiot
12) I said yeah I know in Spanish
13) etc etc etc

Listen, mate. I'm an English native speaker and my English is better than yours.

"11) You said OMGATHEISTSDONTHAVEGODINEVOLUTION, idiot"

That really is pathetic, mate. Go and lie down in a dark room. You'll feel better tomorrow.
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