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18-05-2015, 05:20 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 03:57 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 03:19 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  Medical research is confirmed once it works. People recover from illnesses. Even then it is experimental and not certain.

Evolution on the other hand is an inferred hypothesis from different observable experiments.

This started with finches, then moths and now genes and DNA. I wouldn't disagree with empirical observed science.
What I would dispute is the inferences made from it.

I'm just passing by and noticed this thread..... then I noticed your post.

Evolutionary Biology is used in medical treatment on a daily basis. If evolution weren't a fact much of modern medicine wouldn't be effective.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352411/

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/evo...-medicine/

I haven't denied mutation in bacteria or mutation with sickle cell which protects from malaria and other such medicine related evolution. What I wrote was that mutation cannot account for building creatures and whole organisms.

Defining the edge of evolution is crucial to this debate.
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18-05-2015, 05:21 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 04:12 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 04:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You're on. I will. (In a bit).
1. It's not "random mutatuion". As usual, someone so ignorant of math and Probability and Genetics uses words like that as it looks improbable. One a process is begun, the next step is not really any longer (really) "random", (which you would know had you ever actually studied math, Genetics or Probability Theory), or watch the videos.

Tell that to Daniel Dennet:

"Evolution is all about processes that almost never happen. Every birth in every lineage is a potential speciation event, but speciation almost never happens, not once in a million births. Mutation in DNA almost never happens—not once in a trillion copyings—but evolution depends on it. Take the set of infrequent accidents— things that almost never happen—and sort them into the happy ac- cidents, the neutral accidents, and the fatal accidents; amplify the effects of the happy accidents—which happens automatically when you have replication and competition—and you get evolution." -Breaking the Spell

Every birth is not a speciation event. Too bad. Speciation is a complex process that takes much longer than one birth. The path to it may be started by one birth. A new species is never started WITH only one birth.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-05-2015, 05:23 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 05:21 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 04:12 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Tell that to Daniel Dennet:

"Evolution is all about processes that almost never happen. Every birth in every lineage is a potential speciation event, but speciation almost never happens, not once in a million births. Mutation in DNA almost never happens—not once in a trillion copyings—but evolution depends on it. Take the set of infrequent accidents— things that almost never happen—and sort them into the happy ac- cidents, the neutral accidents, and the fatal accidents; amplify the effects of the happy accidents—which happens automatically when you have replication and competition—and you get evolution." -Breaking the Spell

Every birth is not a speciation event. Too bad. Speciation is a complex process that takes much longer than one birth. The path to it may be started by one birth. A new species is never started WITH only one birth.

Random as in the very first mutation that occurs. Not the genetic passing down of a beneficial mutation.
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18-05-2015, 05:34 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 07:46 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  If I remember correctly, Ashari value revelation over reason. That was one of the issues between Ashari and Mutazila.

Remember when Mutazila ate Tokyo?

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18-05-2015, 05:44 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 04:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 03:54 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  I stand by that. My claim: random mutation does not account for building complex creaures.

Fossil finds in comparison to the number of creatures makes it mathematically improbable.

Cambrian explosion is a gaping problem. Even Richard admits it.

Prove me wrong.

You're on. I will. (In a bit).
1. It's not "random mutatuion". As usual, someone so ignorant of math and Probability and Genetics uses words like that as it looks improbable. One a process is begun, the next step is not really any longer (really) "random", (which you would know had you ever actually studied math, Genetics or Probability Theory), or watch the videos.
2. Your "fossil finds'' is false, which I will list later.
3. So you're on a first name basis with Dawkins ? You still seem to be unable to discuss ANYONE other than him. Why is that ?

You cannot refute even ONE of Dr Szostack's points here :



Listened to most of it. Leaves more questions than answering them. A lot of sophisticated speculating. He even admits himself many times. Nothing to refute.
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18-05-2015, 05:45 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 05:34 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 07:46 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  If I remember correctly, Ashari value revelation over reason. That was one of the issues between Ashari and Mutazila.

Remember when Mutazila ate Tokyo?

Lol
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18-05-2015, 05:46 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 05:23 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 05:21 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Every birth is not a speciation event. Too bad. Speciation is a complex process that takes much longer than one birth. The path to it may be started by one birth. A new species is never started WITH only one birth.

Random as in the very first mutation that occurs. Not the genetic passing down of a beneficial mutation.

Thanks for demonstrating you know nothing about Probability.
Very highly improbable individual events (as improbable as 1/googleplex) happen all the time.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-05-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 05:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 05:23 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  Random as in the very first mutation that occurs. Not the genetic passing down of a beneficial mutation.

Thanks for demonstrating you know nothing about Probability.
Very highly improbable individual events (as improbable as 1/googleplex) happen all the time.

It doesn't answer the question which is that building of an animal is not proven to have been done by this process. Pure imagination.
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18-05-2015, 05:53 PM
RE: New To Forum
(18-05-2015 05:49 PM)objectivetheist Wrote:  
(18-05-2015 05:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Thanks for demonstrating you know nothing about Probability.
Very highly improbable individual events (as improbable as 1/googleplex) happen all the time.

It doesn't answer the question which is that building of an animal is not proven to have been done by this process. Pure imagination.

It's "pure imagination" when one is as ignorant of Chemistry and Physics as you are. As I said, you can refute NOT ONE of the possible processes demonstrated in the video. You don't even understand any of them. You are SO ignorant all you can do is make lame weak generalizations instead of focusing on specific problems. As was said about, you personal "argument (fallacy) from incredulity" is worthless.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-05-2015, 05:59 PM
RE: New To Forum
Wouldn't it be cool if people took an evolutionary science class first before spouting off about what is and is not impossible, or what has and has not happened? ahhhhhh maybe someday. A boy can dream Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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