New York SAFE Act. or Are You Sick of the Gun Debates Yet?
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03-04-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: New York SAFE Act. or Are You Sick of the Gun Debates Yet?
(03-04-2013 02:44 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 10:13 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  That's the point. The exact weapons used weren't what was important, it's that there was an armed insurgency. And a political end to a war, from a people losing the will to fight it, is just as sure a victory as defeating the army in battle. Both the Iraq and Vietnam wars ended due to political pressures at home, and both were losses in every important sense of the word.

Any sufficiently large group of individuals with a strong enough will to fight and enough firepower and organization to make things difficult for the dominant force, can eventually oust the enemy if their will to fight does not fade. Asymmetrical warfare.



But, as I said in my first post, this is largely a symbolic concern. The gun is a symbol of freedom, self-determination, and control. That plus the matters of self-defense, hunting, entertainment, and simple materialism is why the right to own guns is so hotly advocated for by many in the US.

Ah, okay. Disregard. When you put it like that, I agree whole-heatedly, I would have just said it differently than you.

Also, I must admit that it is hard for me to say "we" in the same sense as you. Your experiences make you who you are and all that. Having served in Afghanistan, I don't like to say "we lost". It makes me feel like I am being accused of failing, or we as a military force failed. I get a bit defensive (though I shouldn't), but I try to understand the speakers perspective and explain my word choices. For me, I would say "we" didn't fail, "the politicians failed". Don't get me wrong, I didn't even support the war in Iraq, and I don't think America should have ever set foot there, but we didn't lose because of inferior weapons, training, cowardice, etc. We as a nation failed because it wasn't supported by the people, and because it wasn't a justifiable war.

Yes, I agree that the soldiers were not the ones who lost Iraq and Afghanistan. We lost because they were pointless and/or badly managed. The people on the ground did their duty well and I have little to complain about, although there are the notable few who committed acts of cruelty, a la Abu Ghraib, which we cannot in good conscience ignore.

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2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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04-04-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: New York SAFE Act. or Are You Sick of the Gun Debates Yet?
(03-04-2013 01:48 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Every gun owner does what now?

If your concern over law enforcement is that they don't protect people efficiently or legitimately. It doesn't mean you don't care for your safety, it's that you don't fear it.

Dont fear safety?Huh
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04-04-2013, 08:27 PM
Re: RE: New York SAFE Act. or Are You Sick of the Gun Debates Yet?
(04-04-2013 08:14 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 01:48 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Every gun owner does what now?

If your concern over law enforcement is that they don't protect people efficiently or legitimately. It doesn't mean you don't care for your safety, it's that you don't fear it.

Dont fear safety?Huh

your/ones safety.

And my point had nothing to do with guns/no guns so I still don't get what your response was about.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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05-04-2013, 12:03 AM
RE: New York SAFE Act. or Are You Sick of the Gun Debates Yet?
Have a law in China saying it is the police's duty to directly protect individuals.

Wish you guy good luck with/without guns.

Want something? Then do something.
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05-04-2013, 02:08 AM
RE: New York SAFE Act. or Are You Sick of the Gun Debates Yet?
Yep, I'm sick of 'em. They can all kiss my ass and bark like a fox.

Fuck 'em. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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