New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
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20-04-2013, 10:19 PM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
Sorry Nach.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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21-04-2013, 05:52 AM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
(20-04-2013 10:19 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Sorry Nach.

What the actual fuck on you on about this time, 'Muffs?

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21-04-2013, 06:11 AM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
Ok, why it's bullshit.

As has been said, we were 1st to give women the vote. We're a nuclear free country. Our PM's are never afraid to stand up for NZ. Our PM was very vocally opposed to 'veto' power when the UN was being formed. We always do our own thing, fuck the rest of the world. Hell, we even tell the US to go fuck themselves. I liked that about this country, we have liberal social opinions and we do what the fuck we want, fuck the rest.

Gay rights come along and our PM refused to allow this equal marriage bill be presented for the house to decide on. Instead he said that it would go in the hat like all the other member and private bills and be drawn out randomly, and if it's drawn out then it will be put before the house.
Now, I know that seems like the fair thing, and I suppose I agreed it was at the time, but I've thought about it.
It's not fair. This is not just another every day issue, this is a humans rights issue. Human rights issues should always be at the forefront of the list of bills to go through parliament. Yet our PM just shrugged it off saying, and I quote, "it's not an issue".

Now, luckily it was drawn out of the hat, which is the only reason it was put before the house. Our PM then decided to make it a conscious vote issue. Conscious votes are to allow members of parliament to vote how they personally feel regarding the issue. Normally when the house sits only a few of the members of parliament actually show up as a sort of representative and vote for the collective of the party. The problem with this is that conscious votes are reserved for 'ethical issues', ie: abortion. When we legalized prostitution that was a conscious vote too. IMO, it's insulting to say that it's an ethical issue. It's like saying there is something ethically wrong about a minority in society having the same rights as the majority. ie: Is it ethically wrong for black people to be allowed into the same university as white people?
See what I'm saying?

Thirdly, 44 people voted to deny it. Now I know 77 votes for yes, but 44 out of 121 is still a significant number.

Fourthly, did you notice in that video the people who didn't applaud how they were primarily on the left side? That's National. I vote National.. Who the fuck am I suppose to vote for now? There is literally noone else to vote for... The only other party I would vote for, The Greens, forms coalitions with Labor and I fucking hate Labor, I'd rather vote National again then Labor...

Bringing it back to the first point of NZ doing our own thing. ehhh it's hard to explain. New Zealand culture is not gay friendly.
It's a very do-it-yourself, down with nature, working the farm, doing construction, hard working mans culture. There's no wiggle room for gay culture in that sort of culture. My point is that NZ is very good with equal rights and such, like you say we were first to give women the vote, we're good at having like free healthcare and education and looking after our citizens and not leaving it to big corporations. We're just very bad when it comes to gay people because NZ culture has little room for acceptance.

"Oh muffs, but they passed the bill"
Yea, there was no doubt they wouldn't. But saying "yeah you can get married" and accepting of gay people are two completely different things. Of those 77 that voted yes, how many are actually accepting of gay people? Not many I would guess.

It's hard to explain.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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21-04-2013, 12:58 PM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
You say it's bullshit because the culture is not all gay friendly and there're complexities. But the approval of the law is bothe a real (very real) victory, but it's also a symbolic one. It sends a message: "We're gay, we won't go anywhere, so make room for us!" It gives the gay community a solid point to step on and keep fighting for real equality.

Just like women and voting, women are equal to man under the law, but they have to keep fighting for the real thing, but those victories in the legal aspect gave them visibility and momentum.

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21-04-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
Sadly getting acceptance can sometimes take a long time. But nach is right. It's a step. To get to a destination you have to walk. Sometimes the walk is longer than others, but at least its not standing still.

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21-04-2013, 03:33 PM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
Unfortunately, just because something is legal in a country doesn't always means that it's accepted by the people in it.
I have no idea what it's like in NZ, but I really hope this is a sign that homosexuality is getting more accepted.
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22-04-2013, 12:50 AM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
Sure, it's a "step" towards acceptance, one of many.
I have no doubt in my mind that people wont give a fuck at some stage. Just as I have no doubt in my mind atheism will become the majority "religion" in all western countries, at some stage.

But I live right now. At this current state of affairs. And right now, and in the near future, it's not exactly in my favor.
But while it's mostly me I'm worried about, it's also others. I mean, I'm lucky in the sense that I don't like socializing. I have zero desire to find a suitable mate. I can just keep doing what I'm doing and nobody will be the wiser (at least not to my face). But there are other people, gay people, who are actually normal and do wise to find a suitable life partner.
My point is, yes this is a great victory for gay rights, but does it stop 14 year old Jimmy from being bullied at school because he's a little different? Not in the slightest. That's what I have the problem with, not the actual amendment, just the fact that it's being paraded as a great success for the gay community when nothing that actually truly matters and is proper serious (sorry if I don't find a bit of paper "proper serious") has changed.
It's like any minority. It's like black people having equal rights but still being discriminated against because of their skin colour. Females, having equal rights for ages but still being turned down for promotions because of their gender etc...

It takes far too long for true proper real good change to actually occur and it's frustrating.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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22-04-2013, 01:20 AM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
(22-04-2013 12:50 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  It takes far too long for true proper real good change to actually occur and it's frustrating.

You need the point of view gun
Quote:The Point of View gun conveniently does precisely what its name suggests. That is if you point it at someone and pull the trigger, they instantly see things from your point of view. It was designed by Deep Thought, but commissioned by a consortium of intergalactic angry housewives, who after countless arguments with their husbands were sick to the teeth of ending those arguments with the phrase "You just don't get it, do you?" - Douglas Adams
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25-04-2013, 08:31 PM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
(21-04-2013 06:11 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Ok, why it's bullshit.

As has been said, we were 1st to give women the vote. We're a nuclear free country. Our PM's are never afraid to stand up for NZ. Our PM was very vocally opposed to 'veto' power when the UN was being formed.

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25-04-2013, 08:50 PM
RE: New Zealand legalizes gay marriage
Prime Minister

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