New and thinking ... I think
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16-12-2014, 10:05 AM
New and thinking ... I think
Hi All...
I have recently come out from the shadows of what I call apatheism or those, and I think there are many, who just want to go from day to day without any thought about God, or the lack thereof.

It is nice to know I am in good company.

I have some observations that I would appreciate some further thought on and for which I have not seen much in the science field. Perhaps there is no answer at this point.

1) I think it is true that everything is recycled - you - me, our sun, and perhaps even the entire universe. Everything eventually dies and gets turned into something else - energy or otherwise. It this a true statement?

2) The force of survival. Evolution is based on living things adapting and passing on traits that better allow a species to survive in the current environment. I get that - but where does that need for survival come from? If all of a sudden everything lost that force to procreate its species and to survive then all life would eventually just die out. So what's going on here?

Any ideas would be appreciated

Thinking of you during this friends and family season
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16-12-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
1) Yes, this statement is true. We are made of the very same atoms that came from the Big Bang. You are stardust.

2) The "need for survival" doesn't come from anywhere. (One could argue it comes from evolution, but that would imply that evolution is purpose driven. It's not.) The creatures on earth are here because they have an instinct to survive. That doesn't automatically mean everything has an inborn need for survival. But anything that doesn't have that need quickly succumbs to the cruelty of nature, leaving us with only "critters with the drive to survive." It's really just the basics of survival of the fittest.

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16-12-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
(16-12-2014 10:05 AM)Martyrbca Wrote:  I have recently come out from the shadows of what I call apatheism or those, and I think there are many, who just want to go from day to day without any thought about God, or the lack thereof.

That's where I was most of my life. Religion was just a non-issue.

Quote:1) I think it is true that everything is recycled - you - me, our sun, and perhaps even the entire universe. Everything eventually dies and gets turned into something else - energy or otherwise. It this a true statement?

As a general rule in the short term for things within the universe, I'd agree. It looks like entropy will eventually lead to the heat death of the universe and the recycling will stop.

I don't know that it applies to the universe as a whole as trying to extrapolate what goes on within the universe to anything "outside" it doesn't make sense to me.

Quote:2) The force of survival. Evolution is based on living things adapting and passing on traits that better allow a species to survive in the current environment. I get that - but where does that need for survival come from? If all of a sudden everything lost that force to procreate its species and to survive then all life would eventually just die out. So what's going on here?

I don't see any reason to think there IS a need for survival from any external perspective. Once self-replicating things formed the process would be expected to continue as long as materials and energy are available but it looks like 99.9999% of the universe doesn't evince any "need for survival" of anything.

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16-12-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
(16-12-2014 10:19 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  1) Yes, this statement is true. We are made of the very same atoms that came from the Big Bang. You are stardust.

2) The "need for survival" doesn't come from anywhere. (One could argue it comes from evolution, but that would imply that evolution is purpose driven. It's not.) The creatures on earth are here because they have an instinct to survive. That doesn't automatically mean everything has an inborn need for survival. But anything that doesn't have that need quickly succumbs to the cruelty of nature, leaving us with only "critters with the drive to survive." It's really just the basics of survival of the fittest.

Stark said it all.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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16-12-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
(16-12-2014 10:05 AM)Martyrbca Wrote:  Hi All...
I have recently come out from the shadows of what I call apatheism or those, and I think there are many, who just want to go from day to day without any thought about God, or the lack thereof.

Hey Marty,

It’s difficult not to have daily thoughts of a god or religion because of the constant bombardment from the religious.

Aside from this when contemplating the cosmos or looking for information regarding what we know about the universe, life etc. not knowing is never a reason to fall back on the “god of the gaps” non-answer. I’m not implying you do, but the way you phrased the OP makes me think you may be thinking of a god when you come across naturalistic questions you don’t know the answer to.

“God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance”. - Neil deGrasse-Tyson

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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19-12-2014, 06:19 AM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
All great answers. Thanks. I just saw The Codebreaker. I bet Alan Turing, the genius driven to suicide by stupid, religious based laws, would have come up with a formula for survival just like he did for morphogenisis.
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19-12-2014, 06:29 AM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
just wanted to say welcome!


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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19-12-2014, 06:32 AM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
(16-12-2014 10:05 AM)Martyrbca Wrote:  Hi All...
I have recently come out from the shadows of what I call apatheism or those, and I think there are many, who just want to go from day to day without any thought about God, or the lack thereof.

It is nice to know I am in good company.

I have some observations that I would appreciate some further thought on and for which I have not seen much in the science field. Perhaps there is no answer at this point.

1) I think it is true that everything is recycled - you - me, our sun, and perhaps even the entire universe. Everything eventually dies and gets turned into something else - energy or otherwise. It this a true statement?

2) The force of survival. Evolution is based on living things adapting and passing on traits that better allow a species to survive in the current environment. I get that - but where does that need for survival come from? If all of a sudden everything lost that force to procreate its species and to survive then all life would eventually just die out. So what's going on here?

Any ideas would be appreciated

Thinking of you during this friends and family season

The atoms that make up our bodies molecules that make up our bodies certainly break down as molecules and move on. The atoms in you when you ere a sperm and egg are not in you today. Having said that, don't fall for bullshit woo in thinking energy transfer means that atoms can behave the same separately as they do as part of a bigger structure. Just like a tire by itself cannot function like an entire in tact car.

When you die that is it, no more you. Just like if you smash your computer to bits it will no longer function like an in tact computer.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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19-12-2014, 11:00 PM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
Well kid, your first post and even in the title of your first introduction you made a fallacy...not a good start you know?

You can't think that you're thinking. Thought happens automatically.

Anyway, now that I am done heckling you. WELCOME!


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19-12-2014, 11:18 PM
RE: New and thinking ... I think
The think .. I think... I must admit I borrowed from an old Moody Blues album.. not sure which one. I think.. therefore I am... I think...
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