New convert in a christian home
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01-07-2015, 09:42 AM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2015 09:48 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: New convert in a christian home
I'm definitely concerned about The Conversation. My son turns 9 on September 1st, and (as most of you know) I spent the first 8 1/2 years of his life (he was born 7 months after I got locked up) seeing him only at prison visits for a few hours, one weekend a month. Now, due to work and parole requirements (which include getting Travel Passes to leave the state and go see him), I'm forced to live 6 hours away from him. I will see him, for the second time since getting out April 21st, when my first travel pass was approved: July 7th.

He lives with his mother and grandparents in Kansas City, and they're relatively liberal Christians (female pastor, e.g.) while being extremely conservative politically (as is everyone else in wealthy Johnson County, KS), who take him to church every Sunday, and to Vacation Bible School every summer.

We get along great, and he's a wonderful kid who's so much like me it aches. My Belovéd is amazed at how naturally we get along. But I fear the religion conversation, when it comes. I just don't know what to do that will keep my inlaws from not trying to intervene against me... my fianceé's mother confronted me harshly at an early Visit, when I was at last able to meet him in person (without jail divider-glass between visitors and inmates) 2 1/2 years after he was born, to inform me that she will NOT let her grandchild be taught that it's okay to be gay, and that she didn't object to me as a person, but didn't think her Christian daughter should be dating an atheist.

Carol, my mother-in-law, is otherwise a wonderful person, one of my favorite people on earth. She has been supportive and friendly, came to every court hearing and visited me in every facility, had to be escorted out of one courtroom when they blocked evidence she knew to be true and the police lied openly to cover it (set her off, shouting; she's of Irish blood!), and wrote me more letters in the joint than my Beloved did. Went from a "Rah Rah 'Murika" flag-waver to a devout Enemy of the System. And yet, in the back of my mind, I keep hearing "I will not let my grandson be taught..."

And here I was, just prior to that, sitting in my jail cells torturing myself, worrying about how to raise my son in a mixed-faith home and when to tell him why I don't go to church. (Back then, I thought I'd be out much sooner; the state penalized me heavily, by making me serve almost all of my 2nd case--itself still under appeal due to enormous delays--for winning my first case on appeal, and refusing to admit guilt on either the overturned or the extant case. Back then, it was clear I was going to win the appeals and Go Home, because I didn't yet know just how corrupt the Appellate Court system is... So back then I could think about what I'd do, "soon", to start my family, and I did ponder questions like that.)

It horrifies me the rapidity with which an otherwise sweet, kind, and loving Midwestern lady can turn into a ball of hate-filled rejection, simply because I believe even more in reliance on science for my social/personal guidelines than her daughter... who is a scientist! (Or her sister, who is an MD and seems agnostic from what I've heard of her.)

Religion is not only terrible for the minds it corrupts to destroy reason, but for its destruction of human bonds that should otherwise be solid. It is cult over humanity, and it is unpredictable when an individual cultist will snap and decide they must treat you as an enemy, where yesterday they treated you as family. It terrifies me. I really like Carol! More importantly, I want my son not to have to see the family torn apart over the faith, and I fear that I will be easy to "cast out" if I wind up making a stand, someday, on teaching him things he doesn't learn from the church. Sad

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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01-07-2015, 09:56 AM
RE: New convert in a christian home
(01-07-2015 09:42 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm definitely concerned about The Conversation. My son turns 9 on September 1st, and (as most of you know) I spent the first 8 1/2 years of his life (he was born 7 months after I got locked up) seeing him only at prison visits for a few hours, one weekend a month. Now, due to work and parole requirements (which include getting Travel Passes to leave the state and go see him), I'm forced to live 6 hours away from him. I will see him, for the second time since getting out April 21st, when my first travel pass was approved: July 7th.

He lives with his mother and grandparents in Kansas City, and they're relatively liberal Christians (female pastor, e.g.) while being extremely conservative politically (as is everyone else in wealthy Johnson County, KS), who take him to church every Sunday, and to Vacation Bible School every summer.

We get along great, and he's a wonderful kid who's so much like me it aches. My Belovéd is amazed at how naturally we get along. But I fear the religion conversation, when it comes. I just don't know what to do that will keep my inlaws from not trying to intervene against me... my fianceé's mother confronted me harshly at an early Visit, when I was at last able to meet him in person (without jail divider-glass between visitors and inmates) 2 1/2 years after he was born, to inform me that she will NOT let her grandchild be taught that it's okay to be gay, and that she didn't object to me as a person, but didn't think her Christian daughter should be dating an atheist.

Carol, my mother-in-law, is otherwise a wonderful person, one of my favorite people on earth. She has been supportive and friendly, came to every court hearing and visited me in every facility, had to be escorted out of one courtroom when they blocked evidence she knew to be true and the police lied openly to cover it (set her off, shouting; she's of Irish blood!), and wrote me more letters in the joint than my Beloved did. Went from a "Rah Rah 'Murika" flag-waver to a devout Enemy of the System. And yet, in the back of my mind, I keep hearing "I will not let my grandson be taught..."

And here I was, just prior to that, sitting in my jail cells torturing myself, worrying about how to raise my son in a mixed-faith home and when to tell him why I don't go to church. (Back then, I thought I'd be out much sooner; the state penalized me heavily, by making me serve almost all of my 2nd case--itself still under appeal due to enormous delays--for winning my first case on appeal, and refusing to admit guilt on either the overturned or the extant case. Back then, it was clear I was going to win the appeals and Go Home, because I didn't yet know just how corrupt the Appellate Court system is... So back then I could think about what I'd do, "soon", to start my family, and I did ponder questions like that.)

It horrifies me the rapidity with which an otherwise sweet, kind, and loving Midwestern lady can turn into a ball of hate-filled rejection, simply because I believe even more in reliance on science for my social/personal guidelines than her daughter... who is a scientist! (Or her sister, who is an MD and seems agnostic from what I've heard of her.)

Religion is not only terrible for the minds it corrupts to destroy reason, but for its destruction of human bonds that should otherwise be solid. It is cult over humanity, and it is unpredictable when an individual cultist will snap and decide they must treat you as an enemy, where yesterday they treated you as family. It terrifies me. I really like Carol! More importantly, I want my son not to have to see the family torn apart over the faith, and I fear that I will be easy to "cast out" if I wind up making a stand, someday, on teaching him things he doesn't learn from the church. Sad
until you are off parole, I wouldnt rock the boat. Because if the inlaws feel threatened, they will try to find ways to get you back in jail. Because if my daughters were hanging out with someone that I felt threatened the happy ways of our life that is exactly what I would do. Don't piss off a momma bear when you are vulnerable.

I would say things like, "well not everyone thinks the way your grandparents do" to my child, but don't poke the bear with a stick.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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01-07-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: New convert in a christian home
Sage advice.

That would, most assuredly, explode the family permanently. However, given how she behaved in the court proceedings, and how she has railed against the system she has personally seen to be full of crap and completely corrupt, I don't imagine her going that particular route. It would be more likely to ensure her daughter abandoned her and allied with me. I'm not ruling it out, given the insanity I've seen in other religionists in such situations.

Most likely, and in very traditional Midwestern fashion, she'd start the slow-whisper campaign, "putting the bug in the ear of" my lady and son, trying to poison them against me. But I can't rule anything out.

Luckily, the state has run out of delays, and it seems likely my case will come up for a judgement on the appeal by the end of this year... it should fail on the same grounds as the former. So then I won't have to worry about the State, but the family problem will remain. Sad

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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01-07-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: New convert in a christian home
(01-07-2015 10:20 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Sage advice.

That would, most assuredly, explode the family permanently. However, given how she behaved in the court proceedings, and how she has railed against the system she has personally seen to be full of crap and completely corrupt, I don't imagine her going that particular route. It would be more likely to ensure her daughter abandoned her and allied with me. I'm not ruling it out, given the insanity I've seen in other religionists in such situations.

Most likely, and in very traditional Midwestern fashion, she'd start the slow-whisper campaign, "putting the bug in the ear of" my lady and son, trying to poison them against me. But I can't rule anything out.

Luckily, the state has run out of delays, and it seems likely my case will come up for a judgement on the appeal by the end of this year... it should fail on the same grounds as the former. So then I won't have to worry about the State, but the family problem will remain. Sad

Don't under estimate the power of the fear of hell or the fierceness of a "grand" momma bear. Wink


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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01-07-2015, 03:11 PM
RE: New convert in a christian home
(25-06-2015 12:31 AM)bottlefedmopar Wrote:  I left the faith a year ago after being heavily involved in the church. My wife and I were christians when we got married and I feel terrible because I kinda sprung this athiesm thing on her. We are happily married although there is now this elephant in the room. What I need advice on is when should I tell my children (6 and 8) about why daddy doesn't pray or go to church anymore? I want to respect my wife's belief that without god they will go to hell but want them to have the opportunity to choose delusion or reality for themselves. Thanks!

Damn we are twinsies. I'm in the same boat. I know at sometime i'll have to tell my kids as well (3) and (6). I've conceded to my wife indoctrinating them but I'm giving them a good pile of logic / reasoning / science from my end as well. It makes for a interesting balance that's for sure. My plan was to wait until they are both at least 7 or 8 unless they ask sooner. If they do, I will tell them but will have to hold back until they are old enough for me to really set the tone of how to accept or reject the delusion.

**Crickets** -- God
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01-07-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: New convert in a christian home
(25-06-2015 02:15 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  I agree with DLJ. Teach children how to think, rather that what to think.

After all, isn't religion about respecting the wishes of others?

Yikes, not Christianity. The entire point is spreading the gospel and making disciples of all nations. That's more like shoving the wishes of their delusion down the throats of others, not respecting them. Tongue

**Crickets** -- God
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