New debater needs help
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19-07-2013, 04:19 AM
New debater needs help
Hi everyone, I've recently decided to take a more aggressive roll in debating theists, instead of just listening to them talk non-sense over Facebook. So I've recently gotten into a debate with a so to be Apologist over the legitimacy of the Bible, the big point of contention between us right now is the contradiction in the creation story in Genesis Chapter 1 and 2 where animals were created before Adam in chapter 1 but, in chapter 2 animals were created after Adam and has been replying with "Genesis 1 is a timeline. Genesis 2 is explaining how the creation was made. Genesis 2 isn't in sequence." Since I'm new with debating Theists i was hoping you guys could give me some pointers on this any help would be greatly appreciated.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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19-07-2013, 05:01 AM
RE: New debater needs help
Hi TheSnuffaluffagusJesus and welcome to the forum.

TheSnuffaluffagusJesus Wrote:I've recently decided to take a more aggressive roll in debating theists

I've not eaten an aggresive roll, I had quite a combative vegetarian spring roll once...

Sorry, it's hot. But learn the grammarz.

A few pointers:
The bible is a work of fiction written by poorly educated desert nomads thousands of years ago. I have absolutely no interest in the order of it's fiction, the fact that it's fiction is enough for me. Read this and this and this and this.

Given that we've now established that we can't take the bible seriously, it follows that we can't take creationism seriously.

Therefore it's Phyiscs time. I find this topic confusing, but I know enough to understand that it presents an infitnely more sensible proposition to a god making the universe. Our boffins in the forum have debunked Creationism in every which way. Some fine writing here and here .

Do some research, deal in well sourced facts and above all, always be polite, there is nothing worse than a rude atheist on Facebook - you just look pompous and sad.

You need to treat the religious in the same way you treat someone who has cancer or a serious mental condition, with respect and compassion for the person and utter hatred for the thing that is hurting them.

Get your chatty crationist to come here if he's got more questions...we don't have enough creatioinists in these parts...they funny.

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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19-07-2013, 05:43 AM
RE: New debater needs help
(19-07-2013 04:19 AM)TheSnuffaluffagusJesus Wrote:  Hi everyone, I've recently decided to take a more aggressive roll in debating theists, instead of just listening to them talk non-sense over Facebook. So I've recently gotten into a debate with a so to be Apologist over the legitimacy of the Bible, the big point of contention between us right now is the contradiction in the creation story in Genesis Chapter 1 and 2 where animals were created before Adam in chapter 1 but, in chapter 2 animals were created after Adam and has been replying with "Genesis 1 is a timeline. Genesis 2 is explaining how the creation was made. Genesis 2 isn't in sequence." Since I'm new with debating Theists i was hoping you guys could give me some pointers on this any help would be greatly appreciated.

Point out that all historical, geological, and literary evidence indicates that Genesis 2 was added during the Babylonian Captivity upon their exposure to Zoroastrianism.

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19-07-2013, 06:18 AM
RE: New debater needs help
I always try to be polite to people though on being respectful to a person who is hating, on homosexuals because the bible told him so, it's hard to be respectful... Second off thanks for the links gonna read up on them. Third off don't you think treating them like they have a sickness is like pitying them?

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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19-07-2013, 06:19 AM
RE: New debater needs help
Thanks and could you please give me some reliable links on this so i can read up on it?

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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19-07-2013, 06:51 AM
RE: New debater needs help
Read my first reply and click the blue links.

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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19-07-2013, 07:00 AM
RE: New debater needs help
TheSnuffaluffagusJesus Wrote:Don't you think treating them like they have a sickness is like pitying them?

No. I don't think that.

I use the sickness metaphor becuase as humans we seem to find it very easy to talk with compassion and respect to people that are very ill, and yet it's somehow become 'okay' to be verbally abusive/violent/generally obnoxious towards people who believe in fairies/gods/whatever. Both situations are complex, emotive and fraught with difficulties, and in this respect, I believe they should be approached in a similar fashion.

I fully endorse blowing holes in thier fantasies, but you won't win any debates by being angry/patronsing/insulting.

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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19-07-2013, 11:50 AM
New debater needs help
Sounds like what you need is a master debater.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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19-07-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: New debater needs help
I would suggest you pick your battles a bit more carefully. Christians generally don't see much conflict in the creation accounts of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, and efforts to spell out those conflicts are dismissed as nitpicking. It makes far more sense to recognize the absurdity of the Genesis 1 account all by itself (how was there light and dark for three days before he sun was created? Why does the Bible say the lesser light was made to rule the night when, in fact, the moon is so often visible in the daytime as well?)

If you're looking for contradictions, by far the best have to concern the resurrection of Jesus. No two scriptural accounts are in agreement about what happened there. Did Jesus carry the cross all the way (John) or did he never lay a hand on it (Matthew, Mark, Luke)? How many times did Peter deny Jesus (that's a great one, and Christians twist themselves into pretzels trying to answer it). When was Jesus born (during the reign of Herod or during the reign of Cyreneus: The Bible says BOTH, but history teaches us, quite reliably, that those two reigns did not intersect in time)?

How did Moses write about his own death in Deuteronomy? Why is there no record of Moses in Egyptian history? Why is there no evidence whatsoever that two million nomads settled in Kadesh-barnea for 40 years? Why did Moses say that the Jews built a city that didn't even exist until hundreds of years AFTER the time the Exodus would have taken place?

These are the issues Christianity cannot answer honestly (although they do try).
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19-07-2013, 12:16 PM
RE: New debater needs help
(19-07-2013 11:50 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Sounds like what you need is a master debater.

Some apostles were fishermen - does that mean they were master baiters?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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