New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
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30-01-2018, 07:36 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  The new way if it is anything new, to engage an atheist on God exists or not, consists in me and an atheist - I am a theist - to first work together as to concur on the concept of what is God.

Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.

Yeah okay.

See ya next year now.

Byebye

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30-01-2018, 07:40 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 07:28 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  I think it's also the Kalaam or Kaalaam or Kareem Abdul Jabbar or some such argument..."Everything must have a beginning therefore God but God didn't begin. See, he's the exception. God never had to begin to exist. 'Cause I said so."

I heard it was the Kim Kardashian argument.

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30-01-2018, 07:56 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
It's something with a "K" that's all I'm sure of...

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30-01-2018, 08:12 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
It's not even Ash Wednesday yet.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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30-01-2018, 08:28 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  The new way if it is anything new, to engage an atheist on God exists or not, consists in me and an atheist - I am a theist - to first work together as to concur on the concept of what is God.

Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.
I see you've picked up on the importance of defining terms first. Or at least figured out that you won't get any traction unless you take care of that.

Since we don't believe in any deities, our definitions would not be that important, so long as we understand and agree to use yours for discussion purposes.

Ignoring that you've simply asserted that your god is the "creator of everything with a beginning" without substantiating it in any way -- as others have pointed out, it's not clear that the universe isn't eternal; current scientific thinking leans toward eternality and as such the universe would have no beginning. Therefore, it's not clear that a creator is a necessary entity to explain anything.

Your "concept" is also subject to the infinite regress problem, and to charges of special pleading. If a first mover is needed for everything, it's needed for god himself. If you make an exception for god, that's special pleading. If god doesn't need a creator, simply because you assert it -- then nothing else needs a creator, just because WE assert it.

Given all this, are you sure this is the definition you want to use?
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30-01-2018, 08:32 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  The new way if it is anything new, to engage an atheist on God exists or not, consists in me and an atheist - I am a theist - to first work together as to concur on the concept of what is God.

Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.
A non-existent magical being invented to make people feel better.

Arguing concepts of God is pointless. Unless you have evidence for your belief, there's nothing to discuss.
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30-01-2018, 08:35 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 07:56 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  It's something with a "K" that's all I'm sure of...
It's the Kalam Argument, and William Lane Craig loves it. It's completely worthless, although I can't tell you why because I tend to forget it immediately after I read about it.
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30-01-2018, 09:03 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 08:35 PM)LifelongAtheist Wrote:  
(30-01-2018 07:56 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  It's something with a "K" that's all I'm sure of...
It's the Kalam Argument, and William Lane Craig loves it. It's completely worthless, although I can't tell you why because I tend to forget it immediately after I read about it.

Yeah, it's "The Universe had a beginning but God didn't. Because we define God as not having a beginning." Huh? But... "WE SAID we define God as not having a beginning."

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30-01-2018, 09:14 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
Nothing to see here. Moving along...

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
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30-01-2018, 09:54 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  ...what is your concept of God.

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Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

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Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
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Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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