New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
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06-02-2018, 05:30 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.

So, I am a bit late to this thread, but I'll respond.


When discussing the existence of a god or gods, it is not up to me to define god. It is up to the theist to define the god they believe exists, then present their evidence for its existence.

Any time an atheist defines the god, then refutes the existence of that god, invariably, the theist will say, "well, I don't believe in that god either".

I will only debate the existence of a god that is first defined by the theist.
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06-02-2018, 05:53 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
God IS just a concept.

con·cept
noun
- an abstract idea; a general notion.
- a plan or intention; a conception.
- an idea or invention to help sell or publicise a commodity.

No gods necessary.
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06-02-2018, 05:57 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(06-02-2018 05:53 PM)brunumb Wrote:  God IS just a concept.

"... by which we measure our pain." (John Lennon)

Tongue
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06-02-2018, 06:11 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(06-02-2018 05:30 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.

So, I am a bit late to this thread, but I'll respond.


When discussing the existence of a god or gods, it is not up to me to define god. It is up to the theist to define the god they believe exists, then present their evidence for its existence.

Any time an atheist defines the god, then refutes the existence of that god, invariably, the theist will say, "well, I don't believe in that god either".

I will only debate the existence of a god that is first defined by the theist.

When face with these sort of debates, I will define God for both of us. The Omni-everything creator God of the Bible and Quran etc. If the theists wants to tell me is thinking of a different God, then he can define God as he pleases. This saves a lot of time dancing around this issue.

Cuts through the crap.

“It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction.”
― Harry G. Frankfurt, On Bullshit

Cheerful Charlie
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06-02-2018, 06:29 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
I know I'm a week late to respond to the original question on this thread, but it's one that I've given a lot of thought to and have answered a few times already.

Your definition is too basic -- you believe more than that about your personal god, but you're trying to find a definition that's easier to defend because you know that your actual definition contains too many parts. Your definition, which is just a restatement of "first cause", would include the Big Bang as a god, as it is what scientists would claim is the "foremost creator and cause of everything" (at least as far back as we can tell). Would you ever consider "the Big Bang" a god? Of course not, because that's not how you actually define the term. Besides, you stated that you are a "theist", but this definition that you presented is that of the "deist" because it doesn't even imply that a god interacts with the world after creation. Are you a deist or do you believe in more than just a first cause?

When arguing for the existence of a god, you have to include all the parts that you think fulfill that definition. If, for example, you want to argue that there is a "first cause" and also a "prayer answerer", you'll never be able to demonstrate that there is any overlap between these two groups without committing the fallacy of the undistributed middle. So your argument has to be for a "first cause that answers prayers", and what reasoned argument could possibly support that? I've never heard one outside of "the bible says that they're both the same being", and you're never going to convince us with hearsay about hearsay about something of which no source could ever demonstrate knowledge.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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06-02-2018, 06:30 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
My concept of god is that he's one of us, just a slob like one of us, just a stranger on the bus trying to make his way home.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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06-02-2018, 08:38 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(06-02-2018 06:30 PM)unfogged Wrote:  My concept of god is that he's one of us, just a slob like one of us, just a stranger on the bus trying to make his way home.

Sounds like Bob. Smile

#sigh
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07-02-2018, 12:13 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
I've noticed some theists give several random unconnected definitions for supposedly the same thing, like:

God is love, and God is the universe, and God is the creator of everything, and...

This amounts to pointing to things that we observe, and saying this proves that anything the theist then makes up also exists.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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