New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
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30-01-2018, 09:57 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
What you people probably don't remember is, Pachy is my (erstwhile) boyfriend.
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30-01-2018, 10:01 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
Dear GirlyMan:
Thanks for your contribution of the concept of an unmoved mover.

My concept God is that God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

So, we do have a linkage between your and my concepts of God, in that you have the idea of God as the unmoved cause of motion, and I have the idea of God as the first and foremost cause of everything with a beginning.

Do we have evidence at all that there exists an unmoved mover i.e. an unmoved cause of motion from your part, and from my part a first and foremost cause of everything with a beginning?

I say Yes, and we will see evidence by going forth into the objective world of empirical reality.

In the objective world of empirical reality there is motion everywhere, and there are all things with a beginning: so they are evidence to the unmoved mover who is identical to the first and foremost cause of everything with a beginning.

You see, the unmoved mover is just one act of the first and foremost creator cause of everything with a beginning.

Let me read your objections, okay?


(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  The new way if it is anything new, to engage an atheist on God exists or not, consists in me and an atheist - I am a theist - to first work together as to concur on the concept of what is God.

Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.

(30-01-2018 07:19 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.
I was introduced to unmoved mover when I was like 8 yo. It's trite and banal, epistemologically unsatisfying, and metaphysically uninteresting. Juvenile given the perspective of what we know now.


(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.
My concept of God is Slack, and Bob is nothing if not Slack.
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30-01-2018, 10:05 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 10:01 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  My concept God is that God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

We know that, (from the last few times you trotted out this shit).
How many times do we have to have this crap repeated ?

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30-01-2018, 10:11 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
Thanks, mordant, for your reply.

Now, you say (by the way thanks for accepting the information of my concept of God, namely: in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning), you say:

"Your 'concept' is also subject to the infinite regress problem."

Tell me where and when did you if ever experience an infinite regress at all?


(30-01-2018 08:28 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  The new way if it is anything new, to engage an atheist on God exists or not, consists in me and an atheist - I am a theist - to first work together as to concur on the concept of what is God.

Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.
I see you've picked up on the importance of defining terms first. Or at least figured out that you won't get any traction unless you take care of that.

Since we don't believe in any deities, our definitions would not be that important, so long as we understand and agree to use yours for discussion purposes.

Ignoring that you've simply asserted that your god is the "creator of everything with a beginning" without substantiating it in any way -- as others have pointed out, it's not clear that the universe isn't eternal; current scientific thinking leans toward eternality and as such the universe would have no beginning. Therefore, it's not clear that a creator is a necessary entity to explain anything.

Your "concept" is also subject to the infinite regress problem, and to charges of special pleading. If a first mover is needed for everything, it's needed for god himself. If you make an exception for god, that's special pleading. If god doesn't need a creator, simply because you assert it -- then nothing else needs a creator, just because WE assert it.

Given all this, are you sure this is the definition you want to use?
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30-01-2018, 10:13 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

Prove it.


(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.

Imaginary.

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30-01-2018, 10:24 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
Dear atheists here, as you mostly do not have your information of God which you deny to exist, and as you are into this forum entitled: "http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/"...

Don't you think that unless you accept my information on the concept of God, namely:

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning,"

Don't you think at all that you would not be linking up with me and I with you?

So I think that I cannot be dialoguing with you at all, everyone who has no information of his concept of God, and will not accept the information of God from me.

Anyway, you can read the literature of theists to find out what information of God you can think as worthy of accepting, so that you can dialog with me, okay?
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30-01-2018, 10:28 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 10:24 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear atheists here, as you mostly do not have your information of God which you deny to exist, and as you are into this forum entitled: "http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/"...

Don't you think that unless you accept my information on the concept of God, namely:

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning,"

Don't you think at all that you would not be linking up with me and I with you?

So I think that I cannot be dialoguing with you at all, everyone who has no information of his concept of God, and will not accept the information of God from me.

Anyway, you can read the literature of theists to find out what information of God you can think as worthy of accepting, so that you can dialog with me, okay?

No
We have more than enough information about all the gods.

You are not capable of changing anyone's mind with your garbage.

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30-01-2018, 10:30 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
Addendum:

Even though you don't have your information of the concept of God you are denying to exist, just the same if you have objections at all by which you deny God to exist, I will try to determine from your objections what is the information you do in effect have of God.

And answer your objections, okay?
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30-01-2018, 10:34 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 10:30 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Addendum:

Even though you don't have your information of the concept of God you are denying to exist, just the same if you have objections at all by which you deny God to exist, I will try to determine from your objections what is the information you do in effect have of God.

And answer your objections, okay?

No.
Your unsupported assertion that information is lacking is false.
Your assumption that you have anything to offer anyone is the sin of pride, and false.
Go repent your sins, and pray for forgiveness.
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30-01-2018, 11:03 PM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
Quote:From Pachomius
Anyway, you can read the literature of theists to find out what information of God you can think as worthy of accepting, so that you can dialog with me, okay?

From Bucky Ball
No
We have more than enough information about all the gods.
You are not capable of changing anyone's mind with your garbage.

You say:
"We have more than enough information about all the gods."


Don't you think that you are into muddling up the issue, with bringing in all the gods?

In the year 2018 and for well nigh more than two millennia ago, with intellectuals all the gods have no longer been the intelligent option.


(30-01-2018 10:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-01-2018 10:24 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear atheists here, as you mostly do not have your information of God which you deny to exist, and as you are into this forum entitled: "http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/"...

Don't you think that unless you accept my information on the concept of God, namely:

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning,"

Don't you think at all that you would not be linking up with me and I with you?

So I think that I cannot be dialoguing with you at all, everyone who has no information of his concept of God, and will not accept the information of God from me.

Anyway, you can read the literature of theists to find out what information of God you can think as worthy of accepting, so that you can dialog with me, okay?

No
We have more than enough information about all the gods.

You are not capable of changing anyone's mind with your garbage.
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