New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
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31-01-2018, 12:41 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
I don’t believe this guy believes in god at all.

In fact I think he knows there isn’t a god, he just wants to see if he can convince others that there is one.

Like the person who claims to talk with ghosts.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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31-01-2018, 12:55 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
It's up to someone who is claiming God is a real thing to define it. Otherwise, this is just a demonstration of how meaningless the word is, because it can mean anything to anyone.

Maybe you can tell us why it matters if there is a god?

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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31-01-2018, 01:02 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  The new way if it is anything new, to engage an atheist on God exists or not, consists in me and an atheist - I am a theist - to first work together as to concur on the concept of what is God.

Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.

You are trying to make a claim. Why should anyone help you to define what you are claiming? Imagine i claimed the existence of Elwetritsch, and asked you to help me define what Elwetritsch is? Hobo

God is the creator of everything? including time? How can he create time when time is necessary for the process of creation? Likewise with space. Please come back after you have a coherent idea about how this can work out. Drinking Beverage

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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31-01-2018, 01:25 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
Yeah, "God" can't have created his own timeline. And if he doesn't have one, he can't do anything.

The philosophical, abstract "God", is a special pleading device for plugging holes in infinite regressions that a person presents as their own argument.

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31-01-2018, 02:05 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 10:01 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Do we have evidence at all that there exists an unmoved mover i.e. an unmoved cause of motion from your part, and from my part a first and foremost cause of everything with a beginning?

Maybe you're aware of this already, but...

If you're talking about God as the Prime Mover because he (supposedly) started the universe in motion at a certain point in time, that's the Kalam argument but it isn't the standard Christian conception of the Prime Mover. Aristotle and Aquinas both considered this argument and rejected it.

It would be more careful to say that God caused everything that has a cause, not everything that has a beginning.

The standard Prime Mover or First Cause arguments are not about the first link in a temporal chain. They are about the end link in a series of logical or essential causes. Again, this is NOT about a point in time. It is entirely compatible with a universe that has always existed.

If the Prime Mover or First Cause had acted at a point in time to begin the universe, the idea would be compatible with a Deist God. But this is very much opposed to the Christian view.

When Aquinas talks about motion, he isn't referring to the transfer from point A to point B. He's talking about the change from potency to act. The fact that this change gets translated out of Latin as "motion" has been the cause of much confusion for English speakers.
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31-01-2018, 03:23 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(30-01-2018 06:50 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  The new way if it is anything new, to engage an atheist on God exists or not, consists in me and an atheist - I am a theist - to first work together as to concur on the concept of what is God.

Here is my concept of God, in concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

So, dear atheist interested in this thread, please tell me what is your concept of God.

> God: An imaginary being who allegedly watches over and rules over people who lack the mental fortitude and intellectual integrity to think for themselves. Consider
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31-01-2018, 03:28 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
God: a being that is allergic to sceptics.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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31-01-2018, 03:30 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(31-01-2018 03:28 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  God: a being that is allergic to sceptics.

> And don't forget that he always needs money. Consider
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31-01-2018, 04:23 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
The way I see atheists here, they are full of vulgar bluster but nothing of any intelligent step by step argument on No God does not exist.

It is all cliches and slogans but nothing of ideas that compel mankind to listen to you, except to join you in ranting without logic at all - and that is because they are like you, full of vulgar bluster of grudge and hatred for God, but nothing of any logic and insight.

Okay, come forth and present your step by step of an argument against the existence of God, start with your concept of God.
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31-01-2018, 04:30 AM
RE: New way to engage an atheist on God exists or not.
(31-01-2018 04:23 AM)Pachomius Wrote:  Okay, come forth and present your step by step of an argument against the existence of God, start with your concept of God.

You disprove Elwetritsche first. Drinking Beverage
Start with your concept of Elwetritsche

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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