Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
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14-05-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
(14-05-2017 01:27 PM)sea_tiger Wrote:  I have no problem with the existence of God/gods.I think that God that humans worship is a human-social-cultural construct projecting mankind's idealism on morality,ethics,authority,love,sacrifice,submission,duty,purpose,emotions,need to control human impulses,peace,stability,life's questions,questions about reality,self worth,importance of human kind etc.And this God[a human projection] doesn't describe an iota of real characteristics of an actual God/gods who may exist.

You got it. Thumbsup

(14-05-2017 01:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-05-2017 01:27 PM)sea_tiger Wrote:  And this God[a human projection] doesn't describe an iota of real characteristics of an actual God/gods who may exist.

I think you've just redefined God (an already ambiguous word) to the point where even a Christian would call it a useless definition.

My read is that whatever Bob is, it is none of those things. It's the definitions themselves that are wrongheaded. Any attempt to try and define Bob is misguided to begin with. When they lead with SLACK is intrinsically ineffable and transcendent and then go on to talk about it they just look silly. "Wait, didn't you just say?"

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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14-05-2017, 02:25 PM
RE: Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
(14-05-2017 01:27 PM)sea_tiger Wrote:  I have no problem with the existence of God/gods.I think that God that humans worship is a human-social-cultural construct projecting mankind's idealism on morality,ethics,authority,love,sacrifice,submission,duty,purpose,emotions,need to control human impulses,peace,stability,life's questions,questions about reality,self worth,importance of human kind etc.And this God[a human projection] doesn't describe an iota of real characteristics of an actual God/gods who may exist.

Only, I fail to see anything ideal in any of the gods we've ever created. Only in very recent times have they become even remotely benign and that's only because the societies that imagine them have finally evolved to a less violent, more empathetic and compassionate stage.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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14-05-2017, 02:51 PM (This post was last modified: 14-05-2017 03:12 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
Quote:"Such trends have ironically been taking place even as, I would argue, the probability for the existence of a supernatural god have been rising. In my 2015 book, “God? Very Probably: Five Rational Ways to Think about the Question of a God,” I look at physics, the philosophy of human consciousness, evolutionary biology, mathematics, the history of religion and theology to explore whether such a god exists. I should say that I am trained originally as an economist, but have been working at the intersection of economics, environmentalism and theology since the 1990s."

Such trends have ironically been taking place even as, I would argue, the probability for the existence of a supernatural Unicorn Emperor have been rising. In my 2015 book, “The Unicorn Emperor? Very Probably: Five Rational Ways to Think about the Question of a Unicorn Emperor,” I look at physics, the philosophy of human consciousness, evolutionary biology, mathematics, the history of religion and theology to explore whether such a Unicorn Emperor exists. I should say that I am trained originally as an economist, but have been working at the intersection of economics, environmentalism and theology since the 1990s.

I'm sorry I just had to. I was gonna explain my logic, then I thought it might speak for itself.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-05-2017, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 14-05-2017 03:14 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
(14-05-2017 12:17 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Here's a little chew toy for everyone to play with.

DOES GOD EXIST? SOME SCIENTISTS THINK THEY HAVE PROOF

"Such trends have ironically been taking place even as, I would argue, the probability for the existence of a supernatural god have been rising."

New Age argle bargle.

Hobo

(There are no new proofs for God's existence, just retreads of old arguments which have all already failed.)
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14-05-2017, 06:55 PM
Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
(14-05-2017 12:17 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Here's a little chew toy for everyone to play with.

http://www.newsweek.com/god-faith-religi...god-608897

DOES GOD EXIST? SOME SCIENTISTS THINK THEY HAVE PROOF

"Such trends have ironically been taking place even as, I would argue, the probability for the existence of a supernatural god have been rising. In my 2015 book, “God? Very Probably: Five Rational Ways to Think about the Question of a God,” I look at physics, the philosophy of human consciousness, evolutionary biology, mathematics, the history of religion and theology to explore whether such a god exists. I should say that I am trained originally as an economist, but have been working at the intersection of economics, environmentalism and theology since the 1990s."


Remarkably insipid which relies heavily on the argument from personal incredulity. "It's a mystery, therefore god" is poorly argued. The writer also ignores all contradictory evidence and differing opinions.

All of this ignores the impossibility of any god having created the universe. A cause is an event which always implies time. But special relativity is pretty clear that space and time are so intertwined that they should be referred to as "spacetime." If the matter/energy of the universe either didn't exist or did as a singularity, in either case, no time. Therefore any act of creation would have to precede the existence of time. Here's the reason:

The believer often makes the assumption that every event has a cause. We don't know this to be a truism. Certainly there are events which require no obvious cause, like radioactive decay. So there is no reason to assume that the origin of the universe requires a cause. There are also models which don't require a first cause for the universe.

Here is another problem with the First Cause argument. Since the arguers of a First Cause are defining a cause and effect relationship as the cause precedes the effect. Einstein showed that space and time are inextricably intertwined, so much so that cosmologists refer to space as "spacetime." Thus at the moment of the Big Bang, when the universe "began" or "re-began" time as well as space was created. This violates the cause and effect relationship, since the effect created time, therefore the cause cannot have preceded the effect. In other words, there was no "before" the Big Bang. Therefore there cannot have been a cause. The First Cause fails on the basis of both Einstein and logic.

Naturally, the First Cause argument is supposed to provide evidence for the existence of God. However, this also causes (!) problems. If the universe required a cause, then so does God. So what created the creator? The believer then invokes the bald assertion that "God is eternal." This, of course, has no evidence, but, worse for the true believer is the fact that this particular claim is the special pleading fallacy. "Everything requires a cause, except this one thing I claim created the universe." So remove the fallacy and state that since God needs no cause, then neither does the universe. An even better explanation is that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but there is abundant evidence that the universe exists. Therefore we can conclude that the universe is itself eternal.

So in the end, what can we conclude? There is no empirical evidence to support any claim made by ID, either through experimentation (there is no way to test ID, since it relies on the unproven existence and cooperation of a hypothetical supernatural creator) and there is no way to justify taking ID seriously on the basis of logic. The conclusion is that ID fails as a hypothesis and as a science. Thus it is easy to rule out the supernatural. Personal testimony is all the evidence that the supernatural can muster and ID relies solely on the argument from personal incredulity
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14-05-2017, 07:19 PM
RE: Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
Charlie... You're back!

With the same bullshit.

Why?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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14-05-2017, 08:04 PM
Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
(14-05-2017 12:17 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Here's a little chew toy for everyone to play with.

http://www.newsweek.com/god-faith-religi...god-608897

DOES GOD EXIST? SOME SCIENTISTS THINK THEY HAVE PROOF

"Such trends have ironically been taking place even as, I would argue, the probability for the existence of a supernatural god have been rising. In my 2015 book, “God? Very Probably: Five Rational Ways to Think about the Question of a God,” I look at physics, the philosophy of human consciousness, evolutionary biology, mathematics, the history of religion and theology to explore whether such a god exists. I should say that I am trained originally as an economist, but have been working at the intersection of economics, environmentalism and theology since the 1990s."


Could you clarify this whole thing? I'm just not following.
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14-05-2017, 09:59 PM
RE: Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
(14-05-2017 07:19 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Charlie... You're back!

With the same bullshit.

Why?

Because it was something that is spread through the media and purports that God's existence is supported "by science". This is what passes for proof of existence of God by some. It is the straw some theists grasp at, and therefore is of interest because it is spread by the likes of Newsweak. It's kind of interesting to take a debunking swing at.

The interesting thing about this attempt is that it tries to invoke science as supporting existence of God. A bit of a twist from the usual apologetics.

Sometimes it's good to look at what the believers are peddling, and "Science proves God" is one of those tropes aimed at believers.

Googling a bit shows this is not a rare type of argument at all. So its something atheists should be aware of. Not all Christians are a bunch of fundamentalists.

I found it amusing in a way. Its a bit of a theological bandage. "Don't worry. Science does not disprove God. In fact science indicates God exists".

Again, googling God and science shows there are a lot of people trying to make these arguments, from Templeton Foundation, BioLogos, to other lesser organizations. It's a whole other world of apologists playing this game, which I rarely have seen commented on on Atheist Forums.

I just thought it would be fun to flip up this particular rock and see what crawls out.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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14-05-2017, 10:11 PM
RE: Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
(14-05-2017 08:04 PM)KUSA Wrote:  
(14-05-2017 12:17 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Here's a little chew toy for everyone to play with.

http://www.newsweek.com/god-faith-religi...god-608897

DOES GOD EXIST? SOME SCIENTISTS THINK THEY HAVE PROOF

"Such trends have ironically been taking place even as, I would argue, the probability for the existence of a supernatural god have been rising. In my 2015 book, “God? Very Probably: Five Rational Ways to Think about the Question of a God,” I look at physics, the philosophy of human consciousness, evolutionary biology, mathematics, the history of religion and theology to explore whether such a god exists. I should say that I am trained originally as an economist, but have been working at the intersection of economics, environmentalism and theology since the 1990s."


Could you clarify this whole thing? I'm just not following.

This is a quote from the Newsweak writer of this nonsense. I find it pompous and silly, but what this writer does in this article is try to invoke the good name of Science as indicating there might be something to the idea of the existence of
God.

From there its a list of things that some people think indicates God exists and that science may be able to demonstrate that.

Some of this stuff is rather convoluted in nature, but people have been making these sorts of arguments for years. It's all a bit of a sister to creationism in a way. I posted this because it is a peek under a rock most atheists don't usually see debated in forums like this.

This is just one kind of apologists argument from out there in darkest theist land.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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15-05-2017, 05:00 AM
RE: Newsweek - Scientists Prove God Exists?
Let me finish the title of the article.

"Some scientists think they have proof, but they don't.
They are simply delusional and the following article explains why."

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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