Nice try Aliza
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31-01-2018, 06:38 PM
RE: Nice try Aliza
(31-01-2018 06:08 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(31-01-2018 04:42 PM)Dom Wrote:  To you. The loss of your pet is not comparable to the loss of your child.

You have no idea what is comparable to me or not. What's more, it is impossible for you to know what is comparable to me.

That said, I don't have children so it's impossible for me to know that also. I have lost humans and I have lost animals, and a couple of humans were harder to lose than my animals. Several animals of mine have been harder to lose than most humans.

You cannot possibly know how another person bonds with whom, and what level of importance anyone, person or animal, has in someone else's life. You can only imagine what YOU would feel.

I didn't feel the same about each of my humans, nor did I feel the same about each of my animals. But some bonds are deeper than others, and with me, it has gone both ways.

Or are you assigning right and wrong rather than impact?

I know a guy whose 7 year old son who was drowned in a river when the truck he was driving slid off into the icy river. He couldn't get his son out of the truck, try as he might, he just couldn't get to him. He also had a family dog who later died. There was no comparison, none, between his son dying and his dog dying. He moved beyond the dog's death pretty quickly but hasn't recovered from his little son's death . He never will. There's just no comparison.

Fast forward 60 years and the man lives alone with his dog and no more family or close friends. The dog dies. The man will never get over it.

Also, giving examples of individuals in no way constitutes a rule that this applies to every individual.

"They" (whoever they are) say that losing a child is the worst, followed by losing a life time mate.

Just be aware that you are not talking in absolutes, because you are talking about people's feelings. They are not all the same.

Some people think animals are cute toys or useful companions and take care of them. They love them in their way.

Others see their animals, or some of the animals they lived with, the same as people. There is a constant back and forth communication between these animals and their people. They love them in a different way.

Some things are for sure: We do not all relate to others the same way. We do not feel about others the same way. We do not all grieve the same way.

Just because the majority feels a certain way doesn't mean all of humanity feels that way.

Or, I'll ask again, are you talking about right and wrong or about the impact something can have on a person?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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31-01-2018, 06:55 PM
RE: Nice try Aliza
Dom, I disagree with you. Unless you have a child who dies I don't think you can imagine the life shattering experience it is. I sure hope I never ever have to bury one of my children because I would never recover from it, but I've know others who have. The degree of agony is beyond anything I've ever seen in another human being. I'm sorry Dom, but I completely disagree with you.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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31-01-2018, 07:49 PM
RE: Nice try Aliza
(31-01-2018 03:50 PM)Dom Wrote:  Ahem! I have no living relatives and most of my friends have died. My animals ARE my family. AND friends.

Don't judge, you never know what people went through. Undecided

True I don't, and every person's situation is different. And I'm sorry about that Sad

However, I do know couples who have lost children and never gotten over it, where they did the loss of their pets. I've never lost either a child or a pet, but it's easier for me, personally, to wrap my head around the phrase, "No parent should have to outlive their child," having seen them grieve their loss and continue to grieve that loss.

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01-02-2018, 07:06 AM
RE: Nice try Aliza
(31-01-2018 06:55 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Dom, I disagree with you. Unless you have a child who dies I don't think you can imagine the life shattering experience it is. I sure hope I never ever have to bury one of my children because I would never recover from it, but I've know others who have. The degree of agony is beyond anything I've ever seen in another human being. I'm sorry Dom, but I completely disagree with you.

Well, even if we could absorb all another person has experienced in their life, we would still not feel about it the way they do because of individual body chemistry. My husband died 6 years ago now, and there is not a day when I don't miss him, and I still have waves of grief, just yesterday I cried out of nowhere, something triggered me. But, I have known women who stop grieving after a year or so.

I totally believe that you would be in agony if your child died, and our super strong instinct to protect our young would support this for most people.

I also think I need to point out that in no way am I saying that dogs are like children. They are not, and while they do reason and seek patterns, they do not reason the way we do. A dog's reasoning is strictly linear, each event is only linked to the event(s) immediately preceding and following it. Treating a dog like a child often equates expecting it to think like us, and to include human made concepts, such as guilt. That hanging head, those hanging ears and puppy eyes are not guilt, they are fear and lack of understanding why you are angry. They are pleading for pity.

So, a love of a dog can necessarily never be the same as the love for a child, the level of communication is much different and the physical, instinctual depth of the bond is missing. I don't dispute that at all.

What I am saying is that you cannot judge the importance that a dog occupies in any specific person's life. A family dog can be well loved, but can never take on the same importance as a lone companion dog. Situations can vary enormously. The depth of the bond varies the same.

Plus, just like you don't have a great understanding with every random person out there, you won't have the same relationship with every random dog. You may care for and love a dog and it can still be a bad match. There is likely one out there that would speak to you much clearer. Because of targeted breeding for certain traits, dogs vary even more wildly in personality than people.

Anyway, all I am trying to say with these rants is that you cannot judge what an animal means in a person's life. For many people, an animal is the only sunshine in their lives, and the only reason to get out of bed in the morning. And losing it can mean everything to them.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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01-02-2018, 09:34 AM
RE: Nice try Aliza
(31-01-2018 12:31 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Again, I don't care how well-behaved a dog is, it has no business in a grocery store, restaurant or in any public enclosed space, unless it's a real service dog that is providing assistance to its owner...

I think real service dogs should be tested and have to be registered by a legitimate organization...

Which is what's required in Australia. The only dogs allowed into stores are assistance dogs, who must wear a little blue vest with the name of the authority attached.

[Image: Yebo_8_wks_jacket.JPG]

All other dogs will be out the door immediately—sometimes with their blustering owners who refuse to tether them in the carpark, or the building's outside portico.

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01-02-2018, 09:52 AM
RE: Nice try Aliza
(01-02-2018 09:34 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(31-01-2018 12:31 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Again, I don't care how well-behaved a dog is, it has no business in a grocery store, restaurant or in any public enclosed space, unless it's a real service dog that is providing assistance to its owner...

I think real service dogs should be tested and have to be registered by a legitimate organization...

Which is what's required in Australia. The only dogs allowed into stores are assistance dogs, who must wear a little blue vest with the name of the authority attached.

[Image: Yebo_8_wks_jacket.JPG]

All other dogs will be out the door immediately—sometimes with their blustering owners who refuse to tether them in the carpark, or the building's outside portico.

That's what we need in this country. People just like to think their "special relationship" with their animal means they can do whatever they want and that the rules and laws don't apply to them. Then you have the internet muddying the water where any dog can be "licensed" as a therapy dog or whatever. I found a video years ago on youtube of a "therapy dog" nipping at people in a store while their owner carried it.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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01-02-2018, 10:10 AM
RE: Nice try Aliza
(01-02-2018 09:52 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 09:34 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Which is what's required in Australia. The only dogs allowed into stores are assistance dogs, who must wear a little blue vest with the name of the authority attached.

[Image: Yebo_8_wks_jacket.JPG]

All other dogs will be out the door immediately—sometimes with their blustering owners who refuse to tether them in the carpark, or the building's outside portico.

That's what we need in this country. People just like to think their "special relationship" with their animal means they can do whatever they want and that the rules and laws don't apply to them. Then you have the internet muddying the water where any dog can be "licensed" as a therapy dog or whatever. I found a video years ago on youtube of a "therapy dog" nipping at people in a store while their owner carried it.

I have always agreed that such dogs have to be trained for the job. It's a job, not every dog can do it.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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01-02-2018, 12:33 PM
RE: Nice try Aliza
People should be allowed to bring peafowl to places like the grocery store and the public library, but bringing dogs is going too far.

Just saying.
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01-02-2018, 12:45 PM
RE: Nice try Aliza
(01-02-2018 12:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  People should be allowed to bring peafowl to places like the grocery store and the public library, but bringing dogs is going too far.

Just saying.

I don't think you are allowed to bring snacks into the library, Aliza.

Just saying.

Angel

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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01-02-2018, 01:19 PM
RE: Nice try Aliza
(01-02-2018 12:45 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 12:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  People should be allowed to bring peafowl to places like the grocery store and the public library, but bringing dogs is going too far.

Just saying.

I don't think you are allowed to bring snacks into the library, Aliza.

Just saying.

Angel

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